Cultivating Fitness, Flow and Learning: Dido Balla
How can a basic understanding of neuroscience empower children to take control of their reactions and behaviors? How can schools cultivate conditions that promote flow in their students and why is this important for optimal learning and fulfillment?
This conversation is a goosebump inducer, an optimistic and can-do showcase of the practicality of practices that can promote flow - high-level performance and deep learning.
Dido Balla Speaker, Educator, and Entrepreneur, Dido is currently the Head of Education for the Goldie Hawn Foundation, where his focus is to maximize the impact of MindUP in schools, communities, and families. He is on a mission to make the world a happier, healthier, and more fulfilled place. of Education for MindUp. Dido graduated with a Master’s of Science in Secondary Education from the Johns Hopkins University School of Education. Dido has seven years of experience as a High School teacher, and he is also the founder of a non-profit organization called FitLit, whose mission is to use a blended curriculum of fitness and literacy to empower youth.
As an experienced brain trainer, Dido has positively impacted thousands of parents, educators as well as students in the areas of emotional intelligence, mindful awareness, and positive psychology. His work has expanded across the 10 countries.
In this episode of the Learning Future podcast, hosts Louka and Dido explore the concept of flow and its impact on health, well-being, performance, achievement, and growth. They discuss the importance of long-term fitness rather than short-term gains, the profound experiences of flow, and the collective nature of this state. Join them as they delve into the depths of flow and share insights on how to cultivate it in everyday life. With inspiring conversations and a focus on honoring the learning journey, this podcast episode is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to tap into their own flow experiences.
Educator, Speaker, Entrepreneur
https://www.didoballa.com/
FitLit Chief Vision Officer
Kindness Matters 365 Board Member
https://kindnessmatters365.org/
Transcripts available at www.thelearningfuture.com
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This Season is done in partnership with Salzburg Global Seminar. https://www.salzburgglobal.org/
Please check out our partner’s publication advocating for education transformation: https://www.diplomaticourier.com/issue/transformed-the-case-for-education-transformation
[TRANSCRIPT AUTO-GENERATED]
00;00;04;28 - 00;00;25;28
Louka
Hello dear friends, and welcome back to the Learning Future podcast with me. Look up Harry. Today I am pumped because we get to speak with Dito Bala, who is an amazing speaker, educator and entrepreneur. And Dido and I were really lucky to meet in Israel earlier this year. He's the head of education for the Goldie Hawn Foundation and he focuses his focus currently amongst many things.
00;00;25;28 - 00;00;44;21
Louka
But it's to maximize the impact of mind up in schools, communities and families. And tell us a bit more about that today. But beyond that, he really is on a mission to make the world a happier, healthier and more fulfilled place. He, of course, is an educator as a master's Degrees of science in secondary education from Johns Hopkins University and a seven years experience as a high school teacher.
00;00;44;21 - 00;01;06;05
Louka
But he's also a bit of a hustler because he founded a nonprofit organization called Fit It. His mission is to blend curriculum of fitness and literacy to empower youth. He's an experienced brain trainer. He's impacted thousands of parents and educators. I've heard him speak. He's compelling. He's a really good man as well. Do you have any. Welcome. Glad to have you here, Massimo.
00;01;06;12 - 00;01;27;09
Dido
Appreciate it. I cannot wait to dive in. This is one of those long overdue part two of our conversation. So Israel feels like it was years ago, but we we hit the pause button. So thanks for having me to resume. I mean, it's it's very good. It's been a nice pause, very busy pause, I'm sure, for both of us.
00;01;27;09 - 00;02;01;22
Louka
But, you know, tell us what question one, you know, because that trip for both of us to Israel, where we contributed and looked at the social emotional learning field, which we both a part of in pretty profound learning for us there. Well, what's something that you're learning at the moment in your life, in your work? Yeah, I mean, the trip was interesting because it allowed me to to to go to a place where the everyday dangers for some folks are so real that they really don't know if they are going to see the day.
00;02;01;25 - 00;02;49;22
Dido
The descent of the light to the lights tomorrow from the sun. And I was wondering how people in those kind of circumstances can use what we know about the brain, what we know about things like breathing. You and I both talked about the importance of taking a breath, and I was very curious about the juxtaposition between something as simple as taking a breath and something as complex as conflict war and the feedback I got was amazing because essentially I heard directly from folks who are experienced in fearing for their life daily that the power of breath is the difference between somebody breathing and remembering what to do when they hear the siren, what to do
00;02;49;27 - 00;03;21;13
Dido
when they see people running around, what to do when there's a bomb coming, and the other person not knowing what to do because not taking the breath and going, jumping into the reaction may lead him to making mistakes and perhaps getting hurt or hurting others. When I'm making it home that day for for me, that was very powerful to to confirm that something as simple as mindfulness through your breath, which we all have, as long as we're alive, was that powerful.
00;03;21;13 - 00;03;25;23
Dido
So that takes me to what I've been thinking about more recently, which is,
00;03;25;23 - 00;04;01;10
Dido
you know, consciousness is interesting because we're I argue that human beings are almost addicted to wanting to take credit for the things that happened to us or around us. And I'm getting an amazing book around consciousness. And, you know, it turns out that most of the things that have happened for the past million years and for as long as we've been alive in your brain happened without you knowing that it's happening and the consciousness is only 10% of it.
00;04;01;12 - 00;04;19;21
Dido
So you inviting me to this podcast of having an amazing conversation, We can try to take the credit, but the things that led to that are a mix. It's a cocktail of events and circumstances and and random things that we will never understand.
00;04;19;21 - 00;04;28;26
Dido
And then there's just a little bit of quote unquote agency from us. And recently I'm just fascinated about that idea of the 90%.
00;04;29;01 - 00;04;55;21
Dido
I'm just generalizing here, the 90% subconscious and what's happening under the hood without knowing versus the small 10% that we're all aware of. And yet that's the one that takes the credit. So that's that's where I'm at these days.
Louka
And I love that data. I think that it really reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Jung, which is that until we make the unconscious conscious, it will drive our life and we will call it fate.
00;04;55;23 - 00;05;18;08
Louka
And that's that's this piece around any transformation, which is really the theme of what we've been talking about on this in this season. Anyway, that out, to be honest, for most of my life, like how do we change? How do we evolve? How do you innovate? How do you create value? How do you kind of find human, you know, real human ness in a system, in a relationship and connection for that's beautiful.
00;05;18;08 - 00;05;44;11
Louka
This piece, unlike life being an intricate the balance of chance and choice, and of course we all think it's all cha, but it's never it's like something simple and emergent as a property may tell us more about this because you you can really inhabit multiple worlds here, you know, from the education perspective and transforming that from the social emotional learning here, from the neuroscience perspective and the work you do with mind up.
00;05;44;13 - 00;06;10;28
Louka
But this piece around consciousness seems to be something that's finally becoming a mainstream conversation. And it helps that, you know, Nobel laureates are determining non-local realities and physics and stuff like that. And that's got some pretty influential impacts for the way we think about the world and we think about even this reality. That's a big question. But, you know, anyway, let's go with it.
00;06;10;28 - 00;06;36;00
Dido
I mean, there are many ways to look at it. So let's start with what we do with mind upside. By that, we we start with the importance of neuroscience. And we think that every single kid in the world should have a basic understanding of how the brain functions so that they don't have to be a neuroscientist. But something as simple as understanding that those behaviors that kids exhibit every single day, which are often mislabeled.
00;06;36;06 - 00;07;04;25
Dido
MISBEHAVIORS Yeah, all those are ways in which a brain that is healthy and which is evolving properly is showing up in action. So there's a lot of power in a kid understanding that, you know, there's nothing wrong with me. I am not bad because I felt angry when somebody took my pencil. I am not bad because I yelled when I felt shocked by the fact that it was a test and I wasn't prepared for it was filled.
00;07;05;02 - 00;07;31;08
Dido
I am not a bad kid inherently for wanting to skip class. We did what we were supposed to at the presentation. There was nothing wrong with you. All that's happening is there's something that happened around your environment that triggered your brain and made you go into that quite like freeze mode where your defense mechanism showed up. Men perceived that it was safer for you to skip the class and stay home if for you to yell at somebody.
00;07;31;11 - 00;07;51;10
Dido
And the more you can understand that, the more you can do something about it. So it goes back to the point you made about, oh Jung quote, If you re if you raise the subconscious into the conscious a little bit, then you have a little more agency and you realize, okay, there's nothing wrong with me for having had that reaction.
00;07;51;12 - 00;08;14;07
Dido
However, is there something I can do to perhaps influence the way in which I react to? It's a little more productive for me and for books around me. So that's the basic level of what Mind Up does with kids all around the world, because every single kid should know about that, at least to a small amount, a small degree to how the brain works.
00;08;14;13 - 00;08;42;29
Dido
So that's let's one here. Then you start to think about, well, you can think of like the brain as having three parts amygdala emotions, people in the cortex. I order thinking hippocampus memories. But the truth is, it's not that simple. It's very, very complicated. Right. And I love this. I love it because the more I learn about the brain and I realize that we really don't know anything, we we really just know.
00;08;43;02 - 00;09;09;14
Dido
And as a lifelong learner, yeah, I am excited every time I realize. Yeah, we, we thought we understood, but we don't. So it turns out our bridges, the network, right? There's no separation between parts that only focus on one thing or two things, and they're always talking to each other. Right. And, and, and so much of it is unknown that I'm fascinated by the exploration of what we don't know.
00;09;09;17 - 00;09;27;22
Dido
So let me pick it up a little bit from the mind map level. So mind up kids understand the brain. We have your thinking brain to form the cortex. You have the amygdala emotions. So you always want to be in your people in the cortex because you think, hmm, but if we go a little north of that, yeah, you're going to, you're going to flow, right?
00;09;27;23 - 00;09;47;17
Dido
Because flow is north of consciousness. So whereas on a foundational level, you may think that it's always good to be in the thinking part of your brain. The truth is the times when you feel and perform your best all when you are north of the thinking and you aren't thinking at all, you are performing. That's when you start.
00;09;47;18 - 00;10;09;03
Dido
You're surfing the perfect wave. Yes. When you can write for hours, that's when you get into a train to to give a speech and 30 minutes later, you don't know what happened and everybody's giving you a standing ovation. That's when you you're improvising on the piano and you don't understand how you perform that. It's almost as if you were watching somebody else, but it was you that it's done.
00;10;09;03 - 00;10;42;22
Dido
No, that's the north of consciousness, north of thinking that I'm that I'm fascinated. I'm fascinated with these days, mate. I'm me, too. I mean, the whole piece on like this is a technical term that I've heard as well. But the idea of like things could transit hyper frontal, which is the idea that it's like your prefrontal cortex is totally on board when you're in your executive function mode where you're like, you're the CEO, you're directing things, but then there's this transcendent nature to the whole idea.
00;10;42;22 - 00;11;07;13
Louka
I mean, I like Stephen Colbert's work on this, you know, effortless effort is what flow is. It's like it's this idea that you're it, you become selfless, things feel timeless, they feel rich and, you know, they feel effortless. This kind of stir is that acronym. And I just think there is something about our work. And yeah, I mean, not just schools, not just workplaces, but just life.
00;11;07;20 - 00;11;27;16
Louka
Because of the correlation between the more flow a human being experiences in their life and their level of fulfillment or meaning. And so I really do think if the purpose of education is anything, it's to help cultivate states where we experience flow in our uniqueness. Yeah, and of course, like how do we do that is the next question.
00;11;27;16 - 00;11;50;18
Louka
Well, the certain conditions that we need, the certain pedagogies that we need to set curricula that are important, you know, but, but that I think is the I mean, imagine not experiencing flow in a school experience for a year. I mean, that's, that's my view. So contrary to what we're learning from the sciences of performance and optimal learning, you know, I have goosebumps right now listening to you.
00;11;50;18 - 00;12;25;26
Dido
Allow me to I have goosebumps. I have goosebumps because you said imagine that experiencing flow in schools if you if you ask the question right now, to most educators, is flow being experienced in most schools? As far as I'm concerned, the answer is no. It is not being experienced. It's not. It should be, but it's not. I just got goosebumps because the goal should be flow every day, because that is how you get to the better version, the best versions of those kids.
00;12;26;03 - 00;12;53;21
Dido
And let's let's slow down on what you expect through that very important document, right, sir? Yeah. So that's third is the acronym for FLOW, which is a state is a state of altered continent consciousness. When you feel and perform your best. So F for those listeners, T for timelessness, E for effortlessness are for information, rich information, richness, Right.
00;12;53;21 - 00;13;17;20
Dido
So, so that that's, that's key. We can orchestrate that like if you explain this to a teacher. Yeah. Would you not want your students to feel the sense of selflessness as they are performing or engaging with the work, the sense of timelessness now worrying about when am I going to be done, when do we start? It's the feeling of effortlessness.
00;13;17;27 - 00;13;43;18
Dido
It is easy to produce this and then information. The richness is almost as if somebody else is like giving you all the little nuggets that you need. We everybody should want to feel that way. But two things come to mind. Number one, I feel extremely grateful that I get to experience flow when I work because I was having dinner with friends a few months ago and I explained this with all excitement and around the table.
00;13;43;18 - 00;14;02;04
Dido
Everybody was like, Yeah, I don't know the last time I experienced flow and I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. So I feel like we belong to a small group of the small category of folks who get to experience flow every single day. It's not given for everyone. And number two, back to schools. I don't think schools are doing enough to leverage flow.
00;14;02;04 - 00;14;34;23
Louka
Anything is like, Damn, did I feel so alone on this? It's I feel like the the question I always ask is, you know, what's the young people's experience? And then also what's the educators experience as like because what's the human experience within the human system? And so if sit down with teachers and I this is the question I'll ask in some of my upcoming work, and I do ask it anyway, but when's the last time you experienced flow, even micro flow, What was that context for you?
00;14;34;25 - 00;15;08;06
Louka
Because if an educator is not experiencing that in a given week, then the system is completely demeaning or diminishing their true potentiality to inspire and equip and direct and guide. Like all the beautiful things we know from the learning sciences about what what matters, right? But this and I don't think I do sometimes think ditto because I'm I'm kind of like a scientific artist, I guess a bit of the juxtaposition, you know, you know, a nerdy athlete, a kind of this kind of test.
00;15;08;08 - 00;15;30;17
Louka
But it's not just the it's not just the exclusive domain of the arts flow. And I think sometimes we oversimplify, whereas I do drop into flow playing music or flying down the thing on a skateboard or snowboard or whatever. But there is something about just like staying with problems longer, which is this beautiful Einsteinian quote. It's like, you know, the bell goes.
00;15;30;17 - 00;16;02;10
Louka
And I remember when I was a classroom educator that this happened. I swear, like on on five occasions maybe where the bell goes, no one moves. Nobody because everyone is dropped into an experience at such a level of depth and inner motivation that that kind of these external organizational devices, like school bells, which, you know, we've questionable if we should even have, but you know is those don't have an impact because people are in inherently in the experience it's like that the time dilation like Michael Jordan's beautiful quote.
00;16;02;10 - 00;16;27;17
Louka
It's like, Michael, why are you so good at Babel? And he's like, it's like everything else fades into the background and everything is moving in slow motion. But that is such a beautiful description, I think, of this this experience that we are trying to gift to ourselves and to our fellow human beings through experience, design, and that in schools at least is kind of around pedagogy and awareness and understanding.
00;16;27;17 - 00;17;00;19
Louka
And yeah, I just wonder I just wonder that and we are in a small group, I think, that have tried to align our work lives to this experience, you know, But I feel like if that's not the future of work, I'm not sure what is this? How do you cultivate uniqueness and richness in the way you contribute such that and this is of course, the leadership question How do you architect culture or architect for flow, collective flow in particular, which of course the Navy SEALs do very well, you know, because that's the kind of this is the optimal performance space.
00;17;00;19 - 00;17;37;11
Louka
And I feel like legacy systems do such a disservice to hardworking leaders, educators and hardworking young people, you know? Yeah, it feels it feels almost well, not almost is an ethical premise unethical? It is. So if you've had an experience of flow and you know, it's possible to teach kids how to design their environments and understand themselves well enough to to create that at will, and you don't let that happen.
00;17;37;11 - 00;18;03;07
Dido
It is wrong. It is it is immoral. And I've wondered about this, right, because I wonder it's one of those things you say, look, it's so simple. Why don't we just all agree and just change education all around the world today we have the step by step doing the Flow Genome Project with Jimmy Leland Institute called Learning. You lose all the money you have that you waste on all these other useless on the opportunities, go do that right.
00;18;03;10 - 00;18;26;25
Dido
It is still easy. And yet I'm not going to be shocked if five years from now you and I have the same conversation and the same problems for assists. So. Right. So I wonder why. Right. So I think you have to do it with systems designed to protect themselves as opposed to ask the question and make them change.
00;18;26;27 - 00;18;58;28
Dido
So it is better for the system if things remain as they are because everything is falling into place. That makes sense for the system. That's the one. But two, I think it has to do with the amount of suffering around the world. Now. It's like if people are suffering and can't eat or are worried about war or don't have health care, it's a little difficult for them to, you know, to pause back to to wonder about.
00;18;59;00 - 00;19;25;04
Dido
Yeah, that's the lesson in in doing anything. So I often criticized myself and others when it seems like we are operating from a perspective of as long as we are not suffering, we're good. I really don't like always criticizing them because I think not suffering should be the foundation if the baseline absolutely true goal should be to uplift from from from there.
00;19;25;11 - 00;19;58;28
Dido
So I criticize that perspective a lot because once again, I'm all about human flourishing, not the mere lack of suffering. However, I'm very personally aware of the difficulty of thinking past one day, past one month, past one opportunity when you don't have, you know, access to health care or food or or shelter. And that's another issue which it seems to me we can solve, but we have not.
00;19;58;29 - 00;20;21;27
Louka
So that point there made. So that's so powerful. I mean, I, I think I think it's the frame that is so that really helps shape reality. I mean, this is back to your earlier question about consciousness. You know, no, I don't. I fundamentally believe and I think the quantum sciences are showing this, that none of us are actually experiencing the same reality.
00;20;21;27 - 00;20;51;01
Louka
We're all experiencing our own version of it. And, you know, I don't have a background in quantum physics, so I'll I'll stop there and terms my analysis of it. But I really think, like this is what we're realizing that the observer effect that's now empirically evidence, you know, that this is what won the physics Nobel last year was non-local reality, which is to say, you know, when it's only when there's a conscious observer that reality comes into existence.
00;20;51;01 - 00;21;19;18
Louka
And that's a pretty profound insight that's challenging some classical physics big time. And so I wonder about the the power of our framing, you know, as you say, like the deficit view or the elements, the pathological view from psychology, from economics, from whatever is like, oh, you're you're sick, I'm going to remove the sickness. And that is is such it's important work, but it's clearly not expansive.
00;21;19;24 - 00;21;45;01
Louka
It's not that the absence of sickness does not automatically create wellness, that does not create thriving or thrive ability or flourishing. And I just I just wonder about that. I think sometimes we are just not nearly bold enough in our ambition within education systems and hence the need for true transformation as opposed to reform or an improvement paradigm.
00;21;45;03 - 00;22;15;14
Louka
You know, we still need the learning sciences and improvement sciences, but I believe we need them fundamentally within a transformation paradigm. It's, you know, it's not let's just do what we've been doing a little bit better. It's what's the frame of reference? What is the core purpose that goes on there for this actual piece of our activity, of our contribution in in a life that ends at some point, you know, And so then what sounds to do is a real question that I reflect on all the time.
00;22;15;16 - 00;22;42;13
Louka
It's like, what's mine to do? Because I feel like in that is is agency its responsibility, its contribution and its uniqueness. But it's not just like, what am I, you know, what am I jamming on? Or like, what's my job? No, it's like, what's mine to do over the course of an arc of contribution, of a chapter in a school or a chapter in a consultancy or as an entrepreneur or as, you know, as a work life.
00;22;42;15 - 00;23;04;09
Louka
What's it, man? What do you think your is yours to do? Because you've had a beautiful you haven't talked about your story. I've heard it from you on stage. It's a pretty profound story about what's yours to do and what you're doing right now in the world with, you know, up and beyond that. Yeah, I mean, is that idea like that is on that like you said what what is that?
00;23;04;09 - 00;23;37;00
Dido
I, I am fascinated with questions like that. I, I don't sleep it I'm not thinking about, about that and that's why I cannot live with myself too. Well, I'm not suffering today, so I'm good. No. Yeah, I mean that it's not really attached. So yeah, for me, having lived in some form, Cameroonian originally racial in West Africa, having lived in a place where people like almost everything and also having lived and worked in places where folks have way more than they need.
00;23;37;03 - 00;24;05;20
Dido
Yeah, I have found that there is a sweet spot for everyone where they can do what they enjoy doing, have for some purpose, and also help other people at the same time while expanding themselves. It's almost like it's a healthy addiction to grow healthy itself. Self-discovery, healthy addiction to to, to, to, to uplifting. Yeah, And that's what I'm all about.
00;24;05;20 - 00;24;38;09
Dido
And I and I believe that everybody can do that in their own ways. So we talked about flow earlier. I'm not what you would call a traditional artist. I'll get into flow by speaking in front of people, by having uncomfortable expanding conversations. And I believe that everybody can find that. To me, I think my my, his own dead right mind, by the way, why I exist is to be on this journey to learn so much about myself.
00;24;38;12 - 00;25;11;19
Dido
And I always start with me because you know how complicated it is to understand yourself. I mean, it is it is nearly impossible for you to actually know yourself. So, yeah, let's not even start to think about other people or be the understanding of your part. Let's not even go there in this thing. You and and I am obsessed with learning about how I function and then challenging myself to learn more, grow more, expand more.
00;25;11;22 - 00;25;42;02
Dido
And I want to share that message, man, because I've seen that everybody from just being a human being. Yeah, everybody who's listening. You have what it takes within you to live a life that is slightly more uplifting, that allowed to live yesterday. You have everything in you right now to live the life today that is slightly more empowering, slightly more exhilarating, slightly more exhilarating, I think that hour than it was yesterday.
00;25;42;03 - 00;26;11;19
Dido
You have it now, no matter what your actual circumstances are, you have something now, and I'm obsessed with sharing that with folks. And then everywhere. Oh, wow. So that's so good. That's really great. That's really great, because I, I sometimes am a little cautious about even kind of the field of positive psych. And this idea that, you know, you self-refer I love some.
00;26;11;24 - 00;26;38;12
Louka
And the reason for that is because of the privilege element that comes from that sometimes, you know, it's kind of like someone that's struggling and suffering just to get by. If you give them a tool, which is I'll just think a little bit, think of gratitude and, you know, it doesn't necessarily solve the underlying social or economic challenge, but it seemingly does do something to the person's level of subjective well-being.
00;26;38;15 - 00;26;56;15
Louka
Can you talk you know, I'm in Australia, but you're in the U.S. you've lived in from Cameroon like you've seen the world. We've both seen the world. And so is this something that, you know, all is like universal for all humanity? It is the path of life, you know? Yeah, it's the best of life, man. So I'm from Cameroon.
00;26;56;15 - 00;27;24;24
Dido
I lived in Cameroon, I lived in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. I lived in in Lagos, in Nigeria. I've lived in Cotonou, Bena, Benin, I've lived in Accra, Accra, Ghana. And I've seen some things. I mean, I've experienced some things. And I could tell you this once again, obsessing over controlling the things that happen to you, that's not going to be very useful.
00;27;24;27 - 00;27;55;25
Dido
And I can give you all the perspective, right? So I left Cameroon because armed robbers came to my family's home like three, three times in the span of six months. Like I've gone, slept hungry. I've, I've experienced everything that when you think about extreme poverty, I understand that. But I tell you something. Me having the knowledge that I have some agency, some agency over what my experience get to be, it is powerful, man.
00;27;55;25 - 00;28;14;14
Dido
I'll give you an example that may resonate on that, but I'm struggling to give it because it crossed my mind. Okay, So look, we we know when I was a student in middle school, high school, Cameroon, Benin, what, that the teachers were mean to me and it was so me. It was so bad there with them and you had to respect them like they would.
00;28;14;14 - 00;28;33;16
Dido
They were the king. So when they walked, people actually supposed to, like, stand up to show respect. You don't sit down until they look at you and give you a disrespectful, condescending look. Let's see Now you can sit down, then you can go. I couldn't stand of that. So and the also the physically abusive, the slap you around.
00;28;33;16 - 00;29;01;19
Dido
And I can see smiling now. I didn't have nothing by them. But I'll tell you something. When the teacher came and perhaps punished me or or maybe even hit me right smack me or whatnot, and I can tell you they expected me to crumble and I did not. And I saw the look in their face that did something to me.
00;29;01;21 - 00;29;27;24
Dido
And well, getting with that is the thing that I couldn't control what they were doing to me. But I had to work something internally where I was not going to give them the satisfaction To see that was the result they expected. That made me feel like I had control all go out. Maybe a 12 year old who felt like I don't control anything, but just controlling how I responded to this abuse was empowering.
00;29;27;24 - 00;29;48;11
Dido
And there's something about the brain that when you set up any goal, any goal at all, when you achieve it, it tells you that you got it. You can do more. So something as simple as am going to decide that the corruption around me, the poverty around me has caused and will continue to cause damage, that's for sure.
00;29;48;14 - 00;30;15;22
Dido
However, I would choose one thing within me that I have control over. I will keep my humility, humility. I will keep my pride. I will make it a point to smile at someone. I will I will make it a point to still comfort someone who's next to me no matter what it is you said to go in. If you achieve that goal, your brain rewards you, man.
00;30;15;22 - 00;30;48;25
Dido
And while you can't change your circumstances and even that you might die tomorrow, literally you will have lived a better life for having had agency during that miserable life. And I know this firsthand because once again, the power of knowing that I get to control something, I get to set one goal. It's one step closer to I get to live the life that I want and anybody can have that, wow.
00;30;48;27 - 00;31;17;12
Louka
Thank you. Ditto, Mads. Now I've got the goosebumps for that. That just really lands. I think it really lands. I mean, this piece on I don't think it's like agency isn't given to you, even though there is power dynamics that we talk about, you know, and in co-design or in schools, we think about Student Voice Choice agency. Now we give the students it's kind of like a remembered agency.
00;31;17;14 - 00;31;38;27
Louka
It's like this. It's always within us. And this I mean, as you were talking, I was thinking about Viktor Frankl's work with logo therapy being a man's search for Meaning, which is one of the best books I've ever read, really impacted me. You know, that space between stimulus and response. And actually that's a choice. That's freedom, that's agency, is to choose my response.
00;31;39;00 - 00;32;01;09
Louka
Even in the moment where you have a teacher standing over you physically abusing you, you and realizing that power, you have a sovereignty that we give away all the time, every time that even like you know, for I think your and this is the piece on the brand I'd love you to speak to as well like we give it away for kind of external dopamine.
00;32;01;09 - 00;32;29;11
Louka
This external loops which is like some of the extractive social media technologies, for example, which is, you know, we're just kind of looping in these ways that it's really away from. And you wake up after, I don't know, an hour of being in, what do you call it? DOOMSCROLLING Right. And you're like, oh, you just kind of hand it over your consciousness, your agency to some often, you know, big tech platform, something like that, that's advertising to you and making money off your attention.
00;32;29;11 - 00;32;52;27
Louka
So this is part this is why the transformation piece, it has to be like this agency really for us is that this is a central organizing principle of a human centered organization, education system, school company. It's like, what's yours to do? Like uniquely, you know, like, where's your gift and how do you contribute that back to the collective?
00;32;52;27 - 00;33;19;04
Louka
I've I'm really just really resonates with me to this discipline, like the role of discipline, internal discipline. Yeah. Yeah. I you know, I know that I have everything within me, but this is how I choose to be, to act, to create. And I think you think about the great leaders and the great entrepreneurs, that the level of discipline is kind of, What do you mean?
00;33;19;05 - 00;33;53;03
Dido
When we talk about transformation in the schools? Like how how does that become the organizing principle for education? So I start with money, man. And money is I don't give you a whole podcast of it. This is bad news because I follow the money right? It's I don't even know what to tell you because I have met individual school leaders who are amazing, who who want to do the right thing.
00;33;53;06 - 00;34;17;26
Dido
Yeah. And yet they are part of this system. I don't know. That's why I admire anybody who starts their own thing. There's something about your experience of saying, you know, maybe I can change the system from within the system. Maybe have to do something system adjacent and see if I can kind of laterally, laterally, kind of stick something in there.
00;34;17;26 - 00;34;47;12
Dido
I don't know, man, because I am not convinced that the system, as robust as it is of education, will change unless it collapses. And I can not wish for a an intentional collapse. However, I am reminded that not too long ago with COVID everything collapsing. Yeah, that led to a huge awakening. Yeah. In consciousness, in education and elsewhere.
00;34;47;14 - 00;35;12;22
Dido
I'm also reminded that most people who are successful are successful either because they are obsessed with growing and developing or because they are scared of something. And so you're either running away from or you're running towards. And it I'm not sure that the running towards is is getting a slow you want I don't want to run away from anything.
00;35;12;25 - 00;35;34;12
Dido
I don't want this to collapse for us to finish change it. Yeah but, but I, but I have to say I mean it's a it's a tough it's just tough to, to have these conversations than going to a school tomorrow. Yeah. And realize that they are the 0.001 of what we're discussing. So I guess in this I'm thinking out loud.
00;35;34;13 - 00;36;08;14
Dido
My answer is we need to be married to the infinite game and know that we are doing the right thing and we should not be obsessed with the short term dopamine experience pleasure of seeing our goals being realized today or tomorrow. We should be comfortable doing this work and doing the right thing, knowing that we will likely not be alive when the actual results appear.
00;36;08;16 - 00;36;37;00
Dido
And we need to be okay with that. Because if we don't do that, then we're too focused on what seems to be short term goals. But it's all an illusion. So I think that's what it is when I think it's like health and wellness. You could you could take that the diet pill or the latest fad fad, all you can do the work and just trust that it may take 40 years, but it is what it is.
00;36;37;02 - 00;36;58;01
Louka
I love that. So I'm glad you brought up the infinite game. You know how one of my my life defining quotes from the Vow is an investor angel investor and kind of really spirits Guy says it's about long term games with long term people. But of course those games are long term. The infinite games. They're not games that are even winnable.
00;36;58;04 - 00;37;23;20
Louka
It's not about like, you know, did a yin and yang very fit man. I mean, I think it's not about getting fit. It's about being fit to state that we cultivate. Like you said, man, it's 40 years of being fit. Not like I got fit in the gym in January. And then I'm like, I'm reverting back to things that don't honor health and well-being and like performance and learning and achievement and growth and all the things.
00;37;23;23 - 00;37;49;22
Dido
Now that's so profound and this has been a great set. Thank you. But here's why. This is my pleasure. And I say this for anybody who's listening and how we opened. Yeah, this was slow. This was slow despite the constraints of obsessed with selflessness. The whole time, I did not see the go through. So timelessness, there was no effort into this.
00;37;49;25 - 00;38;11;23
Dido
And it was a download of information from some sort of unagi like feel like I could confidently say that it seemed as if somebody else was remote, controlling and dropping the game that the quote here and then like give the idea here this this will flow. Yeah and we have in common that we cherish every experience of flow that we get.
00;38;11;26 - 00;38;38;04
Dido
But we're not satisfied if others don't have similar experiences in their own ways. So so please take take this conversation and try to steady yourself. What are those things that make you feel in flow? And please try to cultivate them as often as possible, even if it's like 1 minutes a day. Oh, you would think yourself board, right?
00;38;38;06 - 00;39;07;00
Louka
That's so good. Do you know, I think people know this, but we had like two questions, which was like, What are you learning? And then what's transformation? The rest is totally just flow. And I mean, you're so right. I'm like, Damn, really wonderful to drop in with you. I think that's the like, I like that terminology. I kind of you drop into an experience with this collective and this is the whole collective flow piece that again, we're all experienced.
00;39;07;02 - 00;39;35;22
Louka
This is definitely part one or maybe it's part two, part two of many parts to come. Thank you, man. Thanks for joining us for this beautiful conversation and just for being like an incredibly abundant person, energetically, like a generous, you know, your generosity. And I saw it the first time I met you. I just really want only for, you know, honored for the life you're choosing to live and the work that you continue to do.
00;39;35;24 - 00;40;06;07
Dido
My pleasure, man. This is once again for anyone listening. This is our true conversation. And you can tell that we could do it forever. And I don't think don't take it for granted, man. I'm super knowledgeable that we did this and one set out to technology because, I mean, South Florida, you in Australia and we're able to do this live and I don't take it for granted that we had the quality today to allow this to happen and I'm grateful that we're so good.
00;40;06;10 - 00;40;20;21
Louka
Thanks. Thanks for joining us on the Learning Future podcast. If you want to find out more about the door and the work that might end up doing, check out some of the links in the show notes. And in the meantime, keep fun in that flow.