Curiosity is a Superpower: Jigyasa Labroo
Have you ever considered the power of curiosity? What feel-good trends are there for modern humanity?
Jigyasa says her name means curiosity, and in this conversation, she doesn't shy away from delving into deep explorations of creativity, holism, beautiful futures, and even meeting our dreams. These two deep-thinking changemakers share their insights, free of inhibitions, and encourage listeners to embrace their own curiosity to change the world for the better.
Jigyasa Labroo is the Co-Founder and CEO of Slam Out Loud (SOL), where she leads program development, fundraising, and partnerships. SOL uses the transformative power of visual and performing arts like theatre, poetry, and storytelling to build Socio-Emotional Learning skills in children from underserved backgrounds. Slam Out Loud collaborates with state governments and teaching artists, currently working with children across five states in India through their in-person programs, building Creative Confidence in them to find their voice. Organisations across 19 countries have used their online open-source curriculum with a cumulative reach of 10 million children. Jigyasa studied Learning Design as a KC Mahindra scholar at Harvard Graduate School of Education and is one of the winners of Falling Walls, Berlin. She is also on the Forbes 30 Under 30 Asia list and was most recently awarded Innovator of the Year 2023 by HundrED, Finland. Jigyasa has been a fellow at Salzburg Global Seminar, WISE- Qatar, Arts for Good- Singapore, and Teach For India. She believes in the power of finding one’s voice and engages with music, travel, and coaching to evolve hers constantly.
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Slam Out Loud, Education
https://slamoutloud.com/
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This Season is done in partnership with Salzburg Global Seminar. https://www.salzburgglobal.org/
Please check out our partner’s publication advocating for education transformation: https://www.diplomaticourier.com/issue/transformed-the-case-for-education-transformation
[TRANSCRIPT AUTO-GENERATED]
00;00;02;06 - 00;00;24;22
Louka
Hello dear friends, and welcome to the featured podcast. I'm your host, Louka Perry. And today, I mean, I feel like I'm always excited. But today I'm particularly excited to be speaking with a just an incredible changemaker in the work that she does. Her name is Jigyasa Labroo and she is the co-founder and CEO of SLAM Out Loud. And she leads the program Development, Fundraising and Partnerships.
00;00;24;22 - 00;00;54;23
Louka
Aspects of that work so well for short writes them out loud, really is about using the transfer normative power of visual and performing arts like theater, poetry and storytelling to build social emotional learning skills in children from underserved backgrounds. Slam OutLoud has been collaborating with governments and artists all over India, five states so far. But there's also a cognitive reach of, get this, 10 million children together across 19 countries because of their online open source curriculum.
00;00;54;26 - 00;01;18;28
Louka
Jack Ellis There's no joke. She studied learning design as a KC Mahindra scholar at Harvard's Graduate School of Education and is one of the winners of falling walls in Berlin. She's also on the Forbes 30 under 30 Asia list and was most recently awarded Innovator of the year 2023 by 100 in Finland. And we very recently had Lessig on this podcast is the co-founder of hundred.
00;01;18;28 - 00;01;36;28
Louka
So it's all kind of convening back. And I love this final line to just before I hands you, you know, that you believe in the power of finding one's voice and engaging with music, travel, coaching to evolve your own constantly. Love it. Welcome to the podcast.
00;01;37;00 - 00;01;46;29
Jigyasa
Thank you so much, Louka. I'm so glad to be here. And yeah, it's so, so wonderful to also have this conversation with you after after almost a year, my friend.
00;01;47;01 - 00;02;07;03
Louka
It has been and what a year? It's what a year it has been. You've been up to some wonderful things. And if there's anything I would reflect about you and your character to. Yes. So it's it's this the constant openness to transformation within yourself. And so this question, I'm very curious about how you answer this question, which is everything.
00;02;07;04 - 00;02;19;15
Louka
QUESTION always is what's something that you're learning at the moment that's coming into your field of awareness so that you're really finding yourself drawn towards?
00;02;19;17 - 00;03;07;07
Jigyasa
I think so. I grew up as a as the child who always had bittersweet emotions, know, I was I cried really easily. Even now, TV shows make me time, music, poetry, everything that's beautiful about the human condition. And as I was growing up, I feel I was constantly asked to be happier, which I am. I think I'm an extremely joyful person, but I think it's lost a little touch with bitter sweetness in me and just just last week I finished reading this gorgeous book called Bittersweet by Susan Kane and who also got quiet, which was another wonderful book.
00;03;07;14 - 00;03;43;25
Jigyasa
And what I'm learning is to reconnect with my bitter sweetness, reconnect with my relationship with sadness, reconnect with what does it mean for me to be this person who's sensitive, who feels things and not feel shameful about it? Tonight, get sucked into a culture of always smiling, always productive, always on the goal, always inventive. But I think I'm embracing the beauty and creativity that unleashes when I'm able to embrace that bittersweet ness.
00;03;43;28 - 00;04;10;22
Louka
My goodness. That is so profound. Yes. And so beautiful, especially in this world. We've we've kind of found ourselves in of like constant elevation of highlights, even within the social media sphere or even in the kind of thought leadership or brand new sphere, which of course is the reality for all young people today. So this idea of like reclaiming the full human condition, what a beautiful sentiment.
00;04;10;22 - 00;04;59;11
Louka
I do like Susan Kane's work, so I'll have to take her out of her book Bittersweet. And let's let's stay on this theme then around the kind of the full human condition, because I'm as you know, we are both very interested in transformation and learning and of course, learning through transformation and transforming through learning. So how do you how do you really think and feel or even be with that as an as a state or change like a shift at some level, especially with your direct work that you do with young people and kind of helping them find their spark and their uniqueness and to be able to contribute that back.
00;04;59;13 - 00;05;05;13
Jigyasa
Thanks for that. Can you another thing that I'm learning and I'm going that.
00;05;05;15 - 00;05;12;27
Orador 3
If I just find this next question so no, you can do whatever you like, it's great.
00;05;12;29 - 00;05;37;13
Jigyasa
But another thing I'm learning is just to to travel with my younger self. So I do play the guitar and ukulele and the guitar was too heavy to travel with anywhere. And I started traveling with my ukulele and I'm just like learning more songs in it so that it's something really joyful that brings me a lot of joy and a beauty to engage with the music.
00;05;37;13 - 00;06;12;11
Jigyasa
And now, of course, that reminds me of this, which was the original question for for this question was about transformation. I think often, you know, when we hear her talk about the idea of changing the world and it's this is really funny, you know, and you university there was like one of the communities of communities had this, you know, tagline, which is which was change the world.
00;06;12;14 - 00;06;12;24
Orador 3
Yeah.
00;06;12;26 - 00;06;20;29
Jigyasa
And a couple of years down the line, they changed it to change the world for better.
00;06;21;02 - 00;06;21;14
Orador 3
That was.
00;06;21;16 - 00;06;22;11
Jigyasa
Hilarious.
00;06;22;18 - 00;06;28;05
Louka
Well, not all change is good, I guess, is it? Yeah.
00;06;28;08 - 00;06;55;07
Jigyasa
But something that I grew up hearing was that change is inevitable, growth is optional. And I feel when I think about transformation, I think about growth. And when I think about growth, the most obvious growth is something that happens on the outside that we see in the world that we see in this shifting of metrics. But but another kind of growth that I deeply care about and believe in is in a transformation in a group.
00;06;55;07 - 00;07;20;16
Jigyasa
And what happens to us as we engage with some of the most pressing problems of our world, What happens to us when we engage in expressing our full selves and that kind of growth is what I would call transformation. So so even when I think of our work for children, it's very inward focused, discovering who you are as person, discovering your voice.
00;07;20;20 - 00;07;56;01
Jigyasa
And although we might see the outcomes of that in something which is external, when you think of the arts, when you think of children performing spoken word poetry, when you think of children talking about things that are important to them, raising their kids to power, you see they external that that is something you can show. But the changes in the things inside you, the kind of person it makes you to simply our own voice, to be able to express it and to be able to say that I had something to say.
00;07;56;03 - 00;08;07;05
Jigyasa
I find that transformative. And for me, transformation is inner growth. Who you who you become in the process.
00;08;07;08 - 00;08;32;24
Louka
I think it was a countryman of yours together who said, we we all think about changing the world, but we must begin by changing ourselves. I think that was Gandhiji and Gandhi. I have always felt so I get goosebumps then. I've always been so drawn to that because when we think about our work in schools or in systems or in communities, it is this ultimately inner transformation that matters.
00;08;32;27 - 00;08;54;17
Louka
Even if we think kind of in a more I don't know, you might say external standpoint around like academic achievement. Well, actually talking about here is the functions of the brain and the brain in action, which is the mind. And so that's still an immediate transformation. It's all within us. It's all introspective, you know, it's all kind of within our body.
00;08;54;17 - 00;09;22;24
Louka
And I feel that there is something about clearly our work for both of us in the field of social emotional learning, which is this self awareness of self-knowledge, which has been baked into so many traditions over time. You know, the Greek philosophers that I'm drawn to, you know, the other kind of Eastern, you know, whatever it is, this kind of this is really deeply human understanding, then it's kind of the marriage of the inner and the outer world.
00;09;22;25 - 00;10;01;24
Louka
It's like that inner voice can then drive us to create and contribute in the outer world. And I really would love you just to just, I guess, tell us a bit of a story about slam out loud, because I you know, it's wonderful work. And I mean, we're talking about conceptually here, but how do you think transformation can take place if we shift the conditions around a young person in whatever context, majority world, minority world, low high income, so that they can really step into their power and in that way transform and contribute.
00;10;01;26 - 00;10;09;17
Louka
What what's some of that work that you're seeing and the the shifts that you're seeing take place?
00;10;09;19 - 00;10;40;28
Jigyasa
Yes. And shared and shared a little bit about what what led to Islam out loud and then how as to what conditions need to change it on children. So so I grew up with a lot of exposure to the arts myself, and especially being the bittersweet age. I think I felt that I found my voice most, I felt most myself when I was, you know, either writing a poem or dancing or engaging with music.
00;10;41;00 - 00;11;11;12
Jigyasa
And when I started teaching in a low income classroom, it was a natural instinct for me to bring in a lot of music, poetry, theater into my own class. So I did all of that, putting so much of art into my own class and suddenly I saw my children, you know, starting to raise their hands, speaking more, speaking about themselves, enjoying their culture into the classroom all of a sudden, which is something we had never talked about.
00;11;11;14 - 00;11;41;17
Jigyasa
I never knew my kids had so many opinions. If they told all of that when they received that safe speeds to express themselves and Islamorada would have continued as a project, like a passion project inside my classroom would have spread to my classrooms. But snap Marlon's journey was intertwined with my own personal journey of coming to terms with who I am.
00;11;41;19 - 00;12;12;20
Jigyasa
So my family and as you know, Luca is originally from Kashmir in India, which is, you know, in their lives and know my parents belong and I belong to the community of Kashmir bandits. And there was an exodus which happened in the late eighties, early nineties, in which their community was persecuted, had leave Kashmir. And until I was 22 years old, I had never visited Kashmir even once, which is which technically my mother returned from.
00;12;12;22 - 00;12;31;18
Jigyasa
And the first opportunity that I got to do that was when I was teaching these children and I am done with the government. And that entered one of the classrooms. And mostly what I offer it or is a gift that I have to offer. It is a spoken word poetry workshop that I do that once again with you.
00;12;31;20 - 00;12;32;06
Jigyasa
I remember.
00;12;32;09 - 00;12;33;24
Orador 3
I remember.
00;12;33;27 - 00;13;08;16
Jigyasa
This myself. Yeah. Where we, you know, chosen emotion and draw a smoke plume and that emotion and I asked altar and I'd done this workshop more than 50 times with different kinds of kids and as children to pick an emotion to them through a structure to write a small poem on that emotion and if they were like there were about 35 children in the classroom, more than 30 ended up writing about emotions like anger at confusion, sadness, hate, and again, Kashmir is one of the highest military presence in the world.
00;13;08;18 - 00;13;45;05
Jigyasa
This school was shut through most of the year and and children were expressing their relationship with the political environment through poetry, even when I didn't ask them to. And I think that made me deeply feel that made me feel strongly about the case for children having safe spaces to express their emotions, to say how they really feel. And of course, like all over the world, anyone who is engaged with the arts in any way, all of us know that it's such a powerful tool to bring those emotions to the fore.
00;13;45;12 - 00;14;20;10
Jigyasa
To find an outlet, you need to really prioritize artistic learning so much, especially for low income children and and that's that's the space I know a little bit. So that's the space I talk about. When we think about children who come from low income backgrounds, we think about at best, academic success at best getting a job. But nothing beyond that, you know, social learning, finding safe spaces for creative expression, speaking your word, thinking about your culture, bringing your culture into the classroom.
00;14;20;10 - 00;14;45;21
Jigyasa
These are not things that we prioritize, especially for children who come from these backgrounds. And this is clearly evident in how we fund our programs in schools, in in Delhi, areas to fight the just number of students is one is 1400, meaning less than 20 hours of artistic education for children who go to government schools, mostly law across other states in India.
00;14;45;23 - 00;15;29;10
Jigyasa
And if at all, children have access to an art period, either their teachers or we converted into a science. Peter go to math, period. So my homework gets them out loud is really about transforming how this art class, which exists in every child school curriculum, how how might we transform it into a space which is safe for children to express emotionally, to talk about things that are important to them, to build social, emotional learning, and to also learn about things like gender, like climate, which are such an important part of our identity, especially now through the arts.
00;15;29;10 - 00;15;37;27
Jigyasa
Explore that using me as an and that's what I care about in having safe spaces for creative expression.
00;15;38;00 - 00;16;10;17
Louka
It's it's like assets. So it's so wonderful to hear the genesis of all this work and now the scale at which it's functioning as well. It's it's quite inspiring, I have to say. And you said a couple of things there that yeah, that I guess more one comment and one question. I guess the comment I have is that I sometimes wonder about, as you say, in the kind of efficiency argument saying that, well, if you're a low income child, what's most important are the skills for the economy.
00;16;10;19 - 00;16;34;12
Louka
And so I'd love for you in some ways to kind of like dismantle that paradigm, which I think, you know, comes from a well-intentioned place, from a policy lens, perhaps, or you know, if you have a limited budget, Where how do you put that budget? Because I think the second thing you said was like learning through the arts when we think about just before we pressed record, you said something really profound.
00;16;34;12 - 00;16;59;02
Louka
Yeah. So which was you've been thinking about how you help, how we might have more people exploring what they love. And there's something that we've kind of lost in our legacy systems or perhaps was never there in the first place. About this. Well, what are you good at and what can you be paid to do the professionalization as opposed to the what brings you alive and what does the world need to your point about?
00;16;59;02 - 00;17;16;08
Louka
It's not just about change. The world has changed the world for the better. You know, like it's a kind of there's an ethical and moral imperative that we need to pay attention to. So I would yeah, I'd love your reflection on like, what's the case for this? Why is it why do we still find ourselves saying, well, actually the most important skills are the basics.
00;17;16;10 - 00;17;27;04
Louka
And yet knowing that the arts, the arts provides, I think, the most transformational vehicle to get to the basics anyway. What's your what's your reflection on all this?
00;17;27;06 - 00;18;04;17
Jigyasa
Absolutely. I, I was this is supposed to be a meme, an incident that I feel that, you know, if a or I saw it on Twitter, if a child is able to solve a complex calculus problem but is not to communicate in relationship or is not able to communicate as an individual, talk about their needs, they will have a much lesser life experience than someone who is able to do so.
00;18;04;20 - 00;18;40;10
Jigyasa
But it's it's not one it's not the sort that it's not like the choice towards social emotional skills. We're making a choice that can not academics at all. It's and while of course, like social emotional learning skills are not in service of the academics we have, so student research that children who are able to better regulate their emotions, children who are able to solve conflicts without violence, children who are able to better communicate are also able to do better academically and eat it all.
00;18;40;12 - 00;19;24;15
Jigyasa
They feel they need those skills to get back on. We have so many like rising cases of suicides among teenagers. We have so many rising cases, unemployment. We need people who are more creative about finding avenues to what to do next. Very interestingly, World Economic Forum, which is essentially about how, you know, how our world can progress and economically and in many diverse ways as well, talks about how important social emotional learning is or how important the upside or how important are life skills for children and especially for children coming from adversity, for children coming from adversity.
00;19;24;15 - 00;20;01;29
Jigyasa
We already know that there is there are systemic barriers that will lead to more failures than they will for young people and children who come from backgrounds of privilege complete disservice because their world in their world and in the world is stacked against them was how so many possibilities are stacked against them that their chances of doing better rely on what kind of life skills they have.
00;20;02;02 - 00;20;17;08
Jigyasa
Because it is harder. No matter how much we want to underline hard work and not privilege, their lives are harder and they need the skills to deal with it.
00;20;17;10 - 00;20;56;12
Louka
I wondered to guess about that as a beautiful, I might say, that's a beautiful case that's been made because I do feel like there's a bit of a progression here. There's the progression on just academics, academic achievement, so that the lens of social and emotional learning to support academics. It is great. Yes. And maybe a further progression, which is well, actually social domains and dimensions of learning, emotional dimensions and cognitive such academic dimensions converged as as kind of the fabric that holds together any transformational learning approach.
00;20;56;14 - 00;21;23;03
Louka
I mean, any good educator, any good, any human being would say, I like the learning that isn't social or it doesn't move me emotionally. It's not my favorite learning, because of course it's not. And so the thing that gets us out of bed, the thing that excites us, you know, that it really feels so intuitive. And yet I feel like even with the 30 years of evidence we have, it's still sometimes we kind of snap back to this is what matters most.
00;21;23;03 - 00;22;01;19
Louka
And you mentioned metrics at one point to and, you know, I think both of us involved in kind of that new metrics conversation in some way, be it through current seismic global seminar, be it through learning, creates Australia here for us. The whole idea is, you know, we need to kind of have a new set of dimensions that become valued because this whole piece, even like if, if we're still judging, if we're still judging everyone by the same things, even though we're changing the narrative when it comes down to it, we will just snap back to, well, actually, what was your academic achievement score at the end of 13 years of education as opposed to
00;22;01;21 - 00;22;37;21
Louka
what are your social skills and what are your emotional skill? And this is hence the kind of broadening that I think is the returning back to as, as you said earlier, the full human experience, you know, the full human. I said yes, like in your work, which is kind of alongside and system adjacent, but also within like what do you think the next steps are to help us cultivate the conditions so that people step out of formal schooling into what's next with kind of a real sense of what they might want to do?
00;22;37;24 - 00;22;51;09
Louka
You know what I'd like to explore more? What brings them alive? What do you think some of the system change elements are as we talk about? I mean, I talked about metrics. That's one of them, I guess. But what else do you think's there?
00;22;51;11 - 00;23;30;02
Jigyasa
Yeah, I go back to something we started with and you mentioned also, which was like, how do more people do what they love more and you know, there's also there's also another beautiful thought around how if like more people get an award for really following their hearts or found joy in what they were doing or were able to make meaning, how radically different would the world look like if everyone in the world was working on a transformation in some way that I think the world would transform itself?
00;23;30;05 - 00;23;54;11
Jigyasa
I also think of how, like one of the biggest scholars from India deduction would be and of course beautiful spiritual leader to he he had said that, you know, when you become a teacher, if you work more on your self or as to who you are as a person, you will be transforming the lives of your children automatically.
00;23;54;14 - 00;24;40;10
Jigyasa
So the question we need to think about is what is causing more and more people who are part of systems that systems are ultimately made by people and what is causing something inside them to shift and to say to recognize how how many more people expiring definitely might not be more of themselves. And when I think specifically about smart notes work, when I think of our work in transforming how that class looks like, I think what would it take for more and more states across India and more and more countries to relook at the time that is given to what's in this call, to relook at what actually happens in that class?
00;24;40;10 - 00;25;03;17
Jigyasa
Is it about here's an app to draw this apple or is it about what is something that's in your heart that needs to find its way out? What would a class look like where children bring in stories from their homes? What would a class look like where children could express empathy or love to each other in the class?
00;25;03;17 - 00;25;48;23
Jigyasa
Maybe through poetry, maybe through like sharing latitude and and what could that look like systemically is is what I've been thinking about within within our work. We've currently collaborating with state governments and our and our offering to them is about transforming the site period. We can create curriculum, we can handhold teachers, we can support them. But all this happens with people's hearts and minds and attitudes and mindsets changing in the process of what exam with when Sanmar works with teachers, which is not our training is not about Here's what you do in the classroom.
00;25;48;25 - 00;26;12;11
Jigyasa
Our training with teachers as teachers, they poetry and teachers create artwork and teachers shared in open mikes, and teachers get to experience what it means to have a safe space to creatively express. And when someone knows what it feels like, what it means when they've tangibly seen it, when they see their own voice being discovered, that's when they can replicate that.
00;26;12;13 - 00;26;46;04
Jigyasa
And that, I think, is a systemic shift in mindset, which we've seen with the teachers that we work with our teachers have cried, you know, in our training sessions and yeah, and things that they've been holding on to since they were children. So for us to be able to systemically transform that class in policy around how our class happens and you know, what's the input we put into it, And there's so many people whose hearts and minds need to change on the way I feel.
00;26;46;04 - 00;27;08;07
Louka
So it feels like that is the real transformation, you know, and the vehicles for that are a workshop, a session. It's kind of like in in our own, in our own heart, in our own sense of passion and purpose in the world with whatever role that we do. But I think you just get such a brilliant example, you guess, of asking different questions.
00;27;08;09 - 00;27;31;16
Louka
You know, I was listening to you speak and how I'm quite obsessed with the questions that we ask ourselves in the privacy of our own minds. Right? That's really good stuff. That's like it's pretty deep. But, you know, even just the questions we ask our students, all the questions as leaders, we ask our staff well, the questions we ask our systems as system leaders, all that we ask our communities.
00;27;31;18 - 00;28;05;26
Louka
Because those questions, I think, reveal the mental model. They reveal our mindset over time. They've revealed so much of that iceberg that remains under the water in subconscious. It's it's kind of deeply held ways of being, doing, thinking. And I love this idea of rethinking assumptions, which my colleague talks a lot about and not. And for me, it's really like it's like, how do we see the world differently and how do we learn to see That's a great that's a question that I like to think about, especially from a futures lens.
00;28;05;26 - 00;28;31;17
Louka
It's why we do so much for futures. Work with schools and and people because it helps us to see differently. It helps us to step outside our current construct and kind of look back at it and see the potential moving forward. And so I really I mean, that bit on questions I think is so, so powerful. And just the way that you frame things I think is just just beautiful.
00;28;31;20 - 00;28;54;10
Louka
So what is a question like what is the what are some of the questions that you ask yourself? Like this is all unscripted, by the way. It's just so frightful. But yeah, what what are some of the big questions that you really you sit with in the arc of your contribution as a as a young leader? So changemaker.
00;28;54;12 - 00;29;24;26
Jigyasa
Yeah, I think especially because I'm in the work, all my work is around safe spaces for children to find a voice. And I often ask myself is what does it even mean to have a voice? And what does that look like? How is that evolving for me? How is it true to who I am? You know, existential questions Also the line of thinking around voice.
00;29;24;29 - 00;29;53;20
Jigyasa
I think another question that I've started asking myself in the last few years is, is a question around nourishment and a question around taking care of me and those around me and really asking myself, what do I need to show up as my best self? And often, you know, it has a different answer every almost every single day.
00;29;53;20 - 00;30;22;19
Jigyasa
It has a different answer. Another big question that I ask myself, especially when we are in communities, is who is missing and who has not gotten a seat at the table so that I can think about what is my role in that languishing privilege and creating that seat on the table for someone else.
00;30;22;21 - 00;30;53;19
Jigyasa
I ask myself to really, really a lot of questions my name as to look. Interestingly, my name means curiosity. Same thing. It means curiosity. And so I'm a child and full of just like questions and questions. Where would I be if I was? I could own another. I will ended with my last question, but another question that has significantly shaped my life.
00;30;53;19 - 00;31;24;06
Jigyasa
For me, the difference in my life has been a question about what am I willing to suffer? And this really comes from a place of and you address and this really comes from a place of being an entrepreneur and sometimes being on that island of entrepreneurship. And we're often able to, you know, especially when we start out, we are often able to imagine the glory and a the dazzling of beauty that comes with entrepreneurship.
00;31;24;08 - 00;31;50;29
Jigyasa
We imagine all of that. And if we free right from the beginning, are also able to imagine the toil and the suffering that comes from it and really define for ourselves what are we willing to suffer. I think that leads to much less of thing that comes from the expectation of how glorious it would be. I work in this instance to work in these unjust systems of the world.
00;31;51;02 - 00;32;21;23
Louka
Wow. There are some very powerful questions to gather and how fitting that that's your name and that's what it means. Curiosity. It's my signature strength, actually is curiosity, which is why I feel so at home in these conversations and also in the world of learning and education. I wonder I wonder about the future quite a lot together. So I'm curious about what the future might become.
00;32;21;25 - 00;32;51;07
Louka
And I've always kind of been that way. I've always loved history, but also love possibility. And so my penultimate question to you is like when you dream of the future, the future for your country, the future for your community in Kashmir and beyond, of course, where you live now, education systems like how would you describe the future that you're fighting for and what is that like?
00;32;51;07 - 00;33;16;21
Louka
If we're having this conversation in ten years and you and I are a little, little older, wiser, a few more gray hairs, you know what? What do you hope has been accomplished through the work of a whole movement of people that can see differently.
00;33;16;24 - 00;34;04;00
Jigyasa
In the future that I'm hoping for? A lot more people are doing what their heart grieves for. A lot more people are loving what they do. A lot more people have choice. And and it's not an illusion. A lot more people are more compassionate, empathetic, building themselves up while supporting other people to build themselves up, too. And I see children, no matter where they come from, becoming world leaders, becoming artists, becoming Nobel laureates and someone's place, but not determining where they would end up.
00;34;04;03 - 00;34;43;28
Jigyasa
I want to see a future where more people have the ability to dream, where more people find that canvas, where if they see a dream, they're denied killing in the boat, where more people ask better questions, why more people are curious and exploring that curiosity. Have the freedom, have the ability, have the means to. Explore that curiosity. I see a world where education is not simply about getting a job, but with education.
00;34;43;28 - 00;34;54;01
Jigyasa
It's really exploring who we are as humans and how we can change the world for better.
00;34;54;03 - 00;35;26;24
Louka
That's wonderful. Yes, sir. It's so funny, you said, exploring curiosity. And that's a beautiful dream. You know, exploring curiosity is often when people say, oh, look like, what have you been like? What have you been building for the last ten years? Like, what's what how did you create this kind of career? I guess that's not the word I would use, but this kind of contribution set and I yeah, life, this kind of life, I would say it's been exploring my curiosity and my uniqueness as much as that's possible to do.
00;35;26;26 - 00;35;36;17
Louka
And again, so much, so many more blind spots than exploration to go both in, in the inner world, in the outer market, you know, and that's still happening.
00;35;36;19 - 00;35;38;29
Orador 3
Wow. So, yeah.
00;35;39;01 - 00;36;05;05
Jigyasa
So look, I was also just going to add a personal dream, especially for for the children that I work with. I think in the future, I see the children that I work with also becoming the cultural curators. I don't see our culture being defined only by a group of certain elite able to find those platforms and whose voices are heard the most.
00;36;05;07 - 00;36;20;20
Jigyasa
I want children who do come from backgrounds also finding the platforms to influence what culture looks like. Voices also make a difference in the world.
00;36;20;22 - 00;36;22;23
Orador 3
Beautiful together.
00;36;22;26 - 00;36;43;07
Louka
Oh my goodness. So based on that personal dream and I think almost the kind of collective dreams that we all have, people listening to this have their dreams that they're fighting for, that they're waking up, doing work, be they an educator, a leader, an innovator, a parent, whatever the case might be. Thank you for listening, by the way.
00;36;43;09 - 00;36;57;22
Louka
So what would be your parting words to them then, as you think about the take home message that you might leave them with as they go about their day dreaming, creating, working?
00;36;57;24 - 00;37;37;29
Jigyasa
Yeah. If I think if people listening to the podcast remember my name means curiosity, I'd urge them to explore theirs. I think creativity can lead us to beautiful, wonderful places, sometimes dark ones also. But it always causes transformation. It always causes growth when we follow our curiosity again, because and we never have means once seen a meme which said Curiosity killed the cat, but the dad died nobly.
00;37;38;01 - 00;38;01;11
Louka
I've heard that one though, and it's got nine lives anyway, so it could come back. But that's good to hide nobly. Yeah. To be able to go and find out. I think that's just that seems like the real reason why it's like the reason for being, you know, it's to to discover what's ours to do. And then that's the question that I like a lot that I often reflected on what's mine to do today together and today.
00;38;01;17 - 00;38;38;26
Louka
One thing that was mine to do was to have this delightful conversation. You know, with you and explore the concept of curiosity with you. So, look, thank you so much for your generous spirit and your time. And I just really want to also, like, honor you for the work that you do in the world. It's incredibly inspiring work, and I've been lucky to have been in Salzburg with you last year to see the presence you have in person, but also you know how authentic you are in the way you hold yourself and the dreams that you were trying to manifest and make real across communities in India and beyond.
00;38;39;01 - 00;38;43;11
Louka
So thank you very much from us for joining us.
00;38;43;13 - 00;39;02;18
Jigyasa
Thank you so much, Luca, you for your music, for your toy, for all the love, curiosity and thoughtfulness that you bring into the spaces that you inhabit, I definitely think you are changing the world for the better, and I'm grateful.
00;39;02;20 - 00;39;27;23
Louka
Thank you so much together. And you know, it's funny that very few people know that I'm so musical. It's something that I'm really exploring and based on this conversation, one commitment that I have is to actually allow that thing that brings me so much joy, to be more to give that more into spaces that I sometimes withdraw from because of the kind of professionalization that I kind of feel.
00;39;27;23 - 00;39;36;11
Louka
I think so there's a commitment I make to you, dear friend, to kind of allow that to be more than.
00;39;36;12 - 00;39;38;20
Jigyasa
I would in a week.
00;39;38;22 - 00;39;43;08
Orador 3
But I was like, it.
00;39;43;11 - 00;39;44;08
Louka
Thank you so much.