Approaches for Flourishing: Alex Battison
What are the ingredients, components and other big Cs for human flourishing? What tools are available and what are unneeded to achieve our visions?
Alex sets out clear and enactable frameworks and approaches to achieve our visions and ultimately create systems in our work and life geared for human flourishing.
Alex Battison is Senior Deputy Head at Lord Wandsworth College in Hampshire, UK. Previous to that, he was on the SLT at Wells Cathedral school in Somerset and taught at Hurstpierpoint College in West Sussex, holding a variety of different roles.
He is Chair of Educational Futures at Harvard’s Human Flourishing Programme and in May 2022 he was one of 51 individuals convened to discuss the future of education at Salzburg Global Seminar in Austria, with the work produced then being published at the UN Conference for Transforming Education in New York last September. He is a Salzburg Global and RSA fellow, has a Masters in Learning and Teaching from Oxford, and is currently in the last year of a Doctorate in Leadership, Learning and Policy from Bristol University.
Outside of school, Alex is routinely engaged in exploring and collaborating for educational transformation around the world, following his dream of co-creating the future of education.
Alex is also involved in two international working groups that are collaborating to affect systemic change; one that has a focus on supporting school leaders in the UK, and the other investigating inter-generational leadership and methods of co-construction as pathways for greater societal flourishing. Alex consults in other industries where he mentors for both the Premier League and Reluctantly Brave in the areas of leadership and culture change, which exposes him to transformational leadership environments away from schools.
Transcripts available at www.thelearningfuture.com
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This Season is done in partnership with Salzburg Global Seminar. https://www.salzburgglobal.org/
Please check out our partner’s publication advocating for education transformation: https://www.diplomaticourier.com/issue/transformed-the-case-for-education-transformation
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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:16
Orador 1
Hello again, friends, and welcome to the Learning Future podcast. With me, Luke Perry. Today we've got a wonderful conversation and a wonderful guests, and it's with Alex Berenson. He's the senior deputy head at Lords Wentworth College in Hampshire in the United Kingdom. Previous to that, he was on the senior leadership team at Welsh Cathedral School in Somerset and has taught at other colleges across the UK.
00:00:21:02 - 00:00:35:22
Orador 1
He's currently chair of Educational Futures at Harvard's Human Flourishing Program, and in May last year he was one of 51 individuals convened to discuss the future of education at Salzberg Global Seminar in Austria, which funnily enough, is where we met Alex. So it's wonderful to reconnect with you.
00:00:37:01 - 00:00:37:11
Orador 2
Of course.
00:00:38:11 - 00:00:56:24
Orador 1
It's really good. It's really good. Of course, we had some of that work that was then published at the UN Conference for Transforming Education in New York, and Alex also has an RSA fellow as well that has a master's in learning and teaching from Oxford and is currently in the last year of a doctorate in leadership, learning and policy from Bristol University.
00:00:57:00 - 00:01:03:08
Orador 1
I'd love to know how that's going and how close you are to that, but welcome to the podcast and really excited to discuss education transformation with you.
00:01:04:20 - 00:01:06:09
Orador 2
Yeah, excited to be here. Thanks for being here.
00:01:07:04 - 00:01:23:05
Orador 1
Matt So question one is just it's kind of a broad question, but this is really this entire podcast. My entire raison d'etre is really about unlocking, learning the art, the science, the craft. What are you learning? What's one thing you're learning at the moment that you want to share?
00:01:25:04 - 00:01:47:21
Orador 2
Yeah, cool. So I connected a little bit with a doctorate that you mentioned and some conversations that I'm having around change. And yesterday I had a really interesting conversation that followed up on some research I was doing pretty simply, but I think there's some interesting sort of concepts behind it. But this fellow I was talking to was to discussing three different types of change.
00:01:48:16 - 00:02:22:10
Orador 2
So incremental change, transformational change and disruptive change. Interesting. And for me, it was interesting on sort of two levels. So one, yeah, how a school might be to consider how they are engaging in change. What are they incrementally doing? Mm hmm. Tweaking. Making even better. Sustaining. Yeah. What are they transforming? What's, you know, one or two things? Are they becoming, you know, best in class and in what are they disrupting?
00:02:22:10 - 00:02:51:07
Orador 2
So now one area as a and a really disrupting the world of education with that, creating a future of education in the area and you know, this this guy I was talking to was was also just sort of chatting about the nature of disruption. Yeah. And I think art sometimes used transformation and disruption as synonyms and perhaps they are through one perspective.
00:02:52:04 - 00:03:21:23
Orador 2
He was arguing that that they're not and disruption contains destruction. So if you're going to do something and if you're going to disrupt a system, for example, then there's going to be some decay and destruction of the present. Yes. To, you know, as part of being involved in that disruptive process, whereas transformation doesn't necessarily have that destruction and decay, which I thought was really interesting way of looking at it.
00:03:23:00 - 00:04:01:04
Orador 1
That's a really great start. I think it's a great chef. But look, because absolutely a lot of the conversations we've had so far and you can see the bias really is towards the transformation agenda that's required and work that we've put together. And clearly that even the UN is focused on in terms of it's transforming education somewhere in that being that the headline and you know, we've had a wonderful conversation with with Lesley on this podcast as well from Hunter and he talks about the how difficult it is to let things go, like to let things decay in education, it feels almost against our duty of care in some ways.
00:04:01:04 - 00:04:23:22
Orador 1
It's like, you know, it seems like and you're currently in a school, you know, in a leadership role alongside your other international work colleagues is like, here's another thing to do, as opposed to what do we let go of, you know, what kind of and it's the creative, destructive nature of entrepreneurship or innovation, you know, and disruptive innovation as of course, it's also been famously framed that wants to.
00:04:25:01 - 00:04:36:14
Orador 1
Do you think that's the right balance? You know, like 70, 2010, 70% improvement, 20% transfer, 10% disruption. Do you think that now in the age of AI, do you think there really needs to be a different way of thinking about it?
00:04:41:00 - 00:05:19:13
Orador 2
Interesting question. I think I think ultimately when I think about education, when you do later on, I'm sure when so many of the listeners do, I think we're actually talking about the future of humanity and we're talking about education as a, you know, as a guide through to that future, as a as a hand comforting and compassionate, loving, inspirational hand to hold as we investigate the possible futures of humanity in an era, you know, where, as I'm sure you know, listeners will will connect to.
00:05:19:23 - 00:05:44:03
Orador 2
It is pretty challenging at the moment in lots of different ways. Yeah, I think we live in an age of gaps, widening gaps all over the place and you we need a a society that can can bring that together, that can heal wounds, that can be optimistic about the future with, you know, hope and educated hope in a way that brings realities to both.
00:05:44:24 - 00:06:17:10
Orador 2
So I think part about this sort of massive stakeholder management in any process of change. Yeah. And I definitely get that thinking about what to let go of is really important. Come back to your question. Yeah, I think and it's all interconnected, isn't it? And I think part of the big issue with our education system and therefore part of the issue perhaps with with people like me who work in the education system, that we can take on some of the systemic thinking within the system we're having.
00:06:18:07 - 00:06:50:19
Orador 2
So, yeah, you know, I may well be blinded by the fact that, you know, we do this and the systems affected me. I affect the system. You know, we sustain each other. So, yeah, I think it's really interesting before we get to that point of thinking what to let go or to innovate or what have you, but to go through a a stage of of personal transformation first, not to develop a really clear path with a new we are, you know, to have a dream, you know, not a a mission statement or a goal or, you know, if it's good enough and Martin Luther King is good enough for us, you know, yeah, I have
00:06:50:19 - 00:07:15:07
Orador 2
a dream. I have a66 word max statement of what we're all about in life as a person. You know, that's lofty, that's ambitious. You know, we might not hit it, but, you know, we're going to chase it. And and once we've gone through that sort of process, we're more aware of ourselves. We really aware of our context and all the things that might affect the system that we're in.
00:07:15:24 - 00:07:36:15
Orador 2
And I think we can start envisaging a future. We can start thinking about what might be currently happening in the present is enabling that future vision. And also what's, you know, the way to the past, like what's happened in the past and therefore what's been influence now that might be holding that vision back?
00:07:36:24 - 00:07:37:06
Orador 1
Yeah.
00:07:37:16 - 00:08:00:03
Orador 2
And once we have that holistic view, I think we can then decide actually, I think we should be, you know, starting to let this sort of gently subside or actually this needs to be hit really hard straight away. We need to try and minimize this. We need to try and find a way of of of amplifying this of moving these forces to enable this to emerge.
00:08:00:17 - 00:08:14:13
Orador 2
So it's a really a holistic sort of systems design thinking view within an organization. And, you know, I think that's a that's a a challenge, but an opportunity. Right.
00:08:15:15 - 00:08:33:08
Orador 1
Right. As it's so much like so much about the way we see, I think and even like, do we see problems or do we see possibilities? Do we know our our frame of reference or do we open our frame of reference? And of course, double diamond thinking and human design and design thinking and all the rest of it.
00:08:33:18 - 00:08:54:11
Orador 1
But also like this futures literacy work that is work that we do, quite a lot of it the learning future, because it's this idea of we actually are trying to learn to see differently by visiting the future five plus years beyond the current strategic cycle, how do we stretch ourselves such that we can sever our relationship to kind of old constructs?
00:08:54:24 - 00:09:15:09
Orador 1
And so I kind of I also love what you said about I have a dream and kind of transformation, you know, I think it's Gandhi, one wonderful quote. So we're all out there trying to change the world, but we must start by changing ourselves. And like all transformation begins with inner transformation, self defense, much like the interior sciences and the exterior world.
00:09:15:20 - 00:09:35:13
Orador 1
You know, how we see ourselves is how we often see the world and all that kind of personal work and hence the leadership work and much of the work that you've led and been part of. But this, this question I have for you is like, is one around the construct? I'd be a bit stronger than you said you know, we may well, I think you said we may well kind of have internalized a lot of that.
00:09:35:13 - 00:09:54:21
Orador 1
I think we absolutely do that, Alex. We do. We internalize the systems in which we live, work, learn, play. They become us. And so I guess my question to you is and then we become you know, it's not willfully blind. We just it just becomes the unknown unknowns. It's it's kind of this is the David Foster Wallace What is water?
00:09:55:12 - 00:10:16:08
Orador 1
If you ask fish, what is water? They don't know the answer because it's it's everywhere around them. They've never had to ask and never been outside of water. And it's I think like if you're in a container, in a school or in a system or if I'm in an organization over here or doing what, we all just start to internalize this stuff and then we end up with these mental models that actually have all these assumptions baked into them.
00:10:16:14 - 00:10:41:13
Orador 1
So how do how have you learned to see differently? Alex Because that's what I've got in our conversations, you know, since Salzburg is that you are you are absolutely attempting to see the future as one that matters for humanity, not for just employability, which is which is critical, but, you know, So how would you reflect on that very, you know, surface level question.
00:10:42:23 - 00:11:20:24
Orador 2
And look, I wish I could tell you that, you know, a number of years ago, I intentionally set out to to challenge my own thinking and to think differently and to engage in personal transformation. I wish I could tell you that. But in actual fact, I sort of stumbled across it rather than it being anything intentional and I think it probably plays a little bit to my own story and going to, you know, wanting to to sort of make a better career out of at a rugby when I was a bit younger, you know, going to you know, what in effect was a was a sort of polytechnic not getting a great degree, focusing on
00:11:20:24 - 00:11:47:12
Orador 2
the wrong stuff and then, you know, going through becoming a PE teacher, which is where I started out and chatting to my wife actually, who was a history teacher and still is. And and she talk to me a lot about pedagogy. And I thought, crikey, actually you know, through my own particular degree, I hadn't necessarily recognized pedagogy and the science of teaching and learning.
00:11:47:21 - 00:12:20:09
Orador 2
And that really gripped me. And so I'm in that. And I suppose, you know, then I just tried to stay really open to difference. So along my journey, my teaching coaching journey, I met some really inspirational people. So for me, Bronagh, who used to coach the England rugby side, was always been an absolute outlier in global coaching. You know that the sort of vision he was had for creating difference and inspiring the future of coaching.
00:12:21:00 - 00:12:49:06
Orador 2
But, you know, I was privileged enough to meet him and we developed a relationship over the years where that sort of thing came quite early on. I was probably 24, 25 when I met him. Yeah, and that's been sort of disruptive influence is there. And then there's there's a book called Still Like an Artist, and that sort of sums up actually it's just been sort of magpie ing from as many different people as possible who would be outside of the realm of teaching.
00:12:49:10 - 00:13:10:16
Orador 2
Ideally started off with talking about pedagogy and, and, and, and how that can be transformational for a person and a teacher. But then just meeting lots of people who challenge the status quo. And that I think then enabled me to put a mirror on my own life and and how actually, you know, I should challenge the status quo, too.
00:13:10:16 - 00:13:44:18
Orador 2
So how can this guy who, you know, underperformed at a you know, at a university, you know, actually transform himself. So I went on that personal journey. Yeah. So that pedagogy on I went to Oxford. Now in the latter stages, thank goodness of a doctorate, and I've just exposed myself to as much difference as I think that's really been been key to it, to try and unlock my assumptions, become more self aware of the system that I'm in and the things that affect me and try and shape and then be better placed to try and push back while I don't agree with it.
00:13:46:05 - 00:14:16:21
Orador 1
Beautiful Alex That's a really powerful story. And because it's a story that's in some ways it has universal elements to it, which is this like, what are we choosing in our lives that we choosing to expand or are we choosing to contract? And I just wonder about our systems sometimes that that we've inherited. And we we call these often legacy systems or palliative systems, if we're being less polite, you know, mental models that are no longer in service of of true human flourishing.
00:14:17:10 - 00:14:51:12
Orador 1
They are in service of organization, of an efficiency paradigm or of a standardization agenda, which were important at one point in history, but now are no longer at all fit for purpose. So it's not, of course, our fault that we're in these systems that were designed long ago and they weren't. They're not broken. They just operate in existing mental models that are no longer in service of true human growth development, multi dimensionally social, emotional, cognitive, physical, spiritual, the whole human, not least of all, in this digital era.
00:14:52:05 - 00:15:13:03
Orador 1
So I love I just love that story. And this idea of stepping outside ID to look backwards or to look back into where one has come from. And that been every element of our life, every hole lining evolution, you know, where we kind of put another, another layer, of course, that we still have the core, but we have another layer and that kind of we build this way.
00:15:13:24 - 00:15:46:02
Orador 1
So I want I want you to talk a little bit to the human flourishing program at Harvard, because as chair of the ED futures work there, clearly the repurposing of education is part of this. It's telling the new story, the new education stories. Our big change friends would say, who have also been on the podcast for, you know, how do you think that that reframe, that repurposing, how impactful can that be?
00:15:50:02 - 00:16:21:03
Orador 2
So you I think I think it's really important to me to think about flourishing in its multi dimensional concepts. You know, putting the individual right at the heart of an education process. You know, we talked a lot about systems and a lot about change so far. And we haven't talked about individuals. And of course, you know, young people, parents, teachers, society, every member of society on occasion is everyone's business.
00:16:21:03 - 00:16:58:02
Orador 2
And I think thinking about flourishing is is I think the first thing that we think about. We then think about education and how education can help societal flourishing in the future. Quantity. I think that's that's the right way to do it. I think you've got to talk about earlier on, I think we've got to chase that big dream and then think about the ways in which we can enable society to be kind of constructed if it wishes to be, you know, towards those dreams with the face co-produce, which is the Alex side of what the future can be.
00:16:58:14 - 00:17:13:13
Orador 1
How would you say just for people that don't know this construct of flourishing, You know, it sounds lovely, and how would you define that? How would you explain the difference between flourishing and achieving? For example?
00:17:15:24 - 00:17:52:00
Orador 2
So for me, flourishing is around having a deep sense of fulfillment. So not necessarily a happiness, I'm sure happiness comes into it, but I see a facilmente a sense of purpose, a recognition of ourselves in a in a positive way, a contentment in relation to to where we are in the world, who we're interacting with, and how we're experiencing that interaction in life.
00:17:53:02 - 00:18:32:06
Orador 2
And I think flourishing is, is absolutely about how we experience all of that together, is absolutely about love, is absolutely about riding challenges. How we ride the challenges of life is absolutely about connecting with people, collaborating with people, co-creating with people, and committing to what our purpose is. For me, that's that's a really strong insight into how all of you flourishing.
00:18:32:20 - 00:18:35:06
Orador 1
MM Gosh, it's beautiful.
00:18:35:12 - 00:18:43:02
Orador 2
We are also pleased that we got an, we got the actor creating, connecting, collaborating, connecting.
00:18:43:17 - 00:18:46:18
Orador 1
The voice being seen in allowing you not just.
00:18:47:06 - 00:18:47:10
Orador 2
The.
00:18:47:10 - 00:19:14:01
Orador 1
Good, the good. Let us to stop things that I wonder. I wonder, Alex, about. What we're really talking about here is kind of the deep is what of the deepest spiritual question there. It's like, what's it all for? What's a life well lived? What's an education? Well, well made, well experienced. And I feel like part of that is the measurement piece that we haven't discussed today.
00:19:14:01 - 00:19:45:04
Orador 1
But there's something about we can seeing the data. For example, when you think of the science of learning, you know, in this in this case, like knowing that there's been a shift from one state to another quantitatively and qualitatively. So how do you see that like the flourishing program and other movements like it, you know, like the flourishing work from UPN and Martin Seligman, for example, with PERMA plus V and well, these are the kind of models around wellbeing, like, you know, the OECD doing their study and social and emotional skills across the world.
00:19:45:04 - 00:20:10:12
Orador 1
For example, that we're connected through Salsburg to. So how do you think that, that like because there is like a change in the narrative and then there's kind of the level below and you're in the school, you could have the nicest vision statement ever. I'm sure you do, but the hidden grammar of the school is actually what matters is what's happening in day to day, and you get a report card or something and it's got if it's got nothing on flourishing in it, well then clearly there's this disconnect.
00:20:10:24 - 00:20:21:12
Orador 1
What's what's your view on kind of the measurement of the the way that we can kind of strengthen empirically that this transformation, this change?
00:20:24:10 - 00:20:52:01
Orador 2
I think certainly the group that I chair out of the community practice, you know, I think we would would feel that's at the moment there are pretty, pretty basic measurements of success in schools. We've got sort of historical hangovers with this, with academic measurements. And in this country that's GCSE and A-level is predominantly. Yes. And they have a purpose and they've had a purpose.
00:20:52:20 - 00:21:18:09
Orador 2
And at the same time, in a snapshot, they tell us very little. I would argue, about the beautiful complexity of an individual, and it's that beautiful complexity that enables an individual to flourish when, you know most lots of 2 to 2 year olds, when they're sort of sending messages to each other and yes, making you connect things and and exploring possibilities, you know, it's not a rudimentary set of schools.
00:21:18:09 - 00:21:54:08
Orador 2
It's the beautiful complexity of a person then that, you know, is what flourishing at its heart is located. And so I think there are lots of different models out there that are looking to try and appreciate the diversity of the human being and how we might be able to support the development of of an individual within their journey and how we can take care if we want to take a snapshot, how we can take a snapshot of the multiplicity of of their capabilities at that moment in time through their journey of development.
00:21:55:23 - 00:22:27:08
Orador 2
I think the master transcripts from a schools perspective is interesting in the US and more broadly. Yeah, I know that an assessment based in the UK doing some really interesting work in regards to a really holistic portfolio for an individual that represents their multiple intelligences rather than the relatively narrow set that that could be represented via, via the sort of traditional grading system academically.
00:22:27:08 - 00:22:50:09
Orador 2
So there are absolutely models out there that seek to represent the complexity of a human being. And certainly with my research at all. Yeah, you know, this is absolute social science territory. It is. I think any sort of model that's created needs to bear context in mind and the community within which an individual is is being raised in.
00:22:50:09 - 00:23:13:03
Orador 2
And and also, you know, maybe certain key attributes that a community might might might agree upon, as well as just making sure that it is broad and personalized and supportive so that, you know, something is there not to say right. You know, the aim of this measure is to put you in a box and, you know, give you anxiety and etc., etc..
00:23:13:03 - 00:23:32:10
Orador 2
It's to to enable you and the people around you to recognize where you might be at the moment and to think about where you might want to travel next along this purpose journey and what you might want to make even better. And what you frankly think isn't good enough at the moment and what you should celebrate. Yeah, so I think a holistic view is really important.
00:23:33:23 - 00:24:15:21
Orador 1
It really feels like post-COVID. If I can be bold in that statement that we are, you know, wellbeing as a key construct and narrative agency, co agency as another sense of connectedness and belonging like what are the one of the most human things about our schools, these kind of experiences, you know, the embodiment work that PE teachers have been doing for a very long time, you know, out of the might into the body, the body mind connection that we the science, the cutting edge science that just really revealing some remarkable things about how our minds can make us sick and they can therefore make us well.
00:24:15:21 - 00:24:51:03
Orador 1
You know, our thoughts literally shape our physical health. I mean, these these kind of this empirical ground is really being expanded at such a rapid rate. And we haven't even pressed go an eye on some of this stuff that's going to. I just think it is. That's a whole other conversation that yeah this piece on I think this human flourishing the irreducibly unique it was 86 billion neurons in the human brain or something and so now how are they that makes all of us pretty unique because no one has the same brain anywhere.
00:24:51:14 - 00:25:17:20
Orador 1
And so how might we contribute What might be ours to do in the economy, in our community, in our world, in our society? I mean, those those seems to be the questions. And your piece on fulfillment. I mean, what if, Alex, if when we thought about the role that schools played, we centralized fulfillment as its key roles on that instead of achievement in that that itself would be such a transformation.
00:25:17:20 - 00:25:21:01
Orador 1
I think there would be different decisions made and different structures.
00:25:21:03 - 00:25:21:16
Orador 2
Imposed.
00:25:24:03 - 00:25:24:21
Orador 1
To funnel questions.
00:25:24:21 - 00:26:15:05
Orador 2
For you to do. Just to speak to that point. I think what came up to me that was the importance of of intergenerational work, which I think both excuse me really, really passionate about. Yeah. And in enabling adults particularly and to talking for myself, this is part of this has been part, I think of my personal transformation, learning to hold space for young people rather than power over them has been an absolute key part of a thinking about how to create more sustainable and just futures by working with young people and breaking down that hierarchy that can exist so frequently in in society because, you know, the the history that we've been built upon.
00:26:16:11 - 00:26:43:18
Orador 2
I'm not saying that's all bad. I'm not sort of at one extreme or the other, but just this is really interesting to hold that intention. Yes. And so to explore intergenerational leadership and intergenerational cloud construction and co-production is, I think, an absolute aspect of my sort of vision for the society and for humanity through education. And then you mentioned the films and and success.
00:26:43:20 - 00:27:06:08
Orador 2
And I think certainly in regards to change, you know, even if we're going to turn the Terminator by, you know, this sort of move a still image to the left is absolutely about raising the consciousness of the different aspects that we might want to be achieving. And earlier in the conversation, we were talking about becoming more self aware.
00:27:06:15 - 00:27:35:22
Orador 2
Yeah, of us becoming self aware of the structures and systems that we we've lived in and being brought up in and how that having an effect on us. Yes. And so actually holding government alongside a community's definition of success. Yeah. Holding them in help, permission to be able to talk to communities and have that discursive conversation in regards to where do we want to go with these things.
00:27:35:22 - 00:27:55:14
Orador 2
Are they mutually exclusive now? To what extent they work together, emerge? Let's have a conversation about that. But let's not just have a conversation about that with people who think the same who are the same age as us. Let's have conversations about that with people, you know, with the diversity of people who can co constructs and let's be authentic in what we're saying.
00:27:55:14 - 00:28:15:15
Orador 2
So if we if we're saying we believe in highly constructed futures in this way, then also the methodology of going through this process has got to be all kind of construct an authentic construction. You've got to show integrity there. So yeah, I just wanted to share those. Yeah. And two things, brilliant and inspirational that triggered that with me.
00:28:15:15 - 00:28:42:08
Orador 1
So obviously we escaped them, although, I mean, that's why we think co-design is really the future of any system change. You need multi-stakeholder, diverse perspectives that put the problem in the middle. That possibility set in the middle of the challenge catalog come up collectively with a range of solutions using, you know, divergent and convergent thinking techniques and then prototype them and test them.
00:28:42:12 - 00:29:12:13
Orador 1
And then from that place, upscale or even better spread, you know, which means spreading versus scaling, you know, metaphor spreading contextually relevant scaling, pressing the button and hoping it goes to scale, which was also another way that might so much more we could talk about, let's make this part one. My final question is simply this What's your take home message based on what you're thinking about in our conversation tonight, What would you like our listeners to, you know, to have ruminating in their minds?
00:29:18:02 - 00:30:01:02
Orador 2
I think do everything you can whilst paying attention to what matters to you most in life. Do everything you can to reach out within networks, to have conversations, to speak to different perspectives, to your own, to build a vision within yourself for what you would want humanity to look like and find where your own issues within that. Find where your area of most vibrant flourishing is for you within that.
00:30:02:06 - 00:30:26:17
Orador 2
And once you've got that vision choice, it be content that life is complex and things will emerge and we can't plan everything. But be honest with yourself, with your purpose, operate with your ABCs, be ambitious for it, believe in it, and be courageous enough to follow through with it. And you'll find that there's a community out there to support you with.
00:30:27:24 - 00:30:33:24
Orador 2
And we're two example. There we go. Alex That's great. I was kind of getting.
00:30:34:06 - 00:30:42:06
Orador 1
I was kind of getting vibes of like being kind of on the rugby field, like, you know, it's just of the psyche of that to go out and face the Wallabies or something.
00:30:42:06 - 00:30:54:19
Orador 2
Like that. But you've obviously tried coming up, coming up to a TV screen where you really, really love it.
00:30:56:04 - 00:31:15:04
Orador 1
Alex, thank you so much for your time all the way there from the UK. This has been a delightful discussion on flourishing fulfillment system change, Individual pursuit of of what matters most in life. And you know, the fact that we can't transform anything unless we start with ourselves. Thank you for joining us and all the best for the journey ahead.
00:31:16:17 - 00:31:21:03
Orador 2
Absolutely. Pleasure, Luke. Thanks very much. Thanks for everyone joining tuning in. Appreciate it.