S2E3 - Cath Fitzhardinge: Reclaiming Nature, Movement and Wellbeing in Childhood
What if children’s playtime—particularly in natural environments—is not just a break from learning, but the most vital learning of all?
Are we overlooking what children are telling us through their play—especially when they seek stillness, solitude, or repetition?
In this episode of Reclaiming Nature, Movement and Wellbeing in Childhood, host Amie Fabry speaks with Cath Fitzhardinge an occupational therapist, nature space consultant, and passionate nature play advocate. Together, they explore the essential role of outdoor environments in child development, the importance of sensory-rich play, and how advocacy can shape school and community design. Cath shares her personal journey, research insights into restorative play, and practical ways educators and parents can foster meaningful nature connections in everyday settings.
About Cath Fitzhardinge:
I grew up in Shark Bay & Leeman, two small fishing towns along the West Australian coast. My dad was the school principal who encouraged all types of experiential learning and tree climbing! My mum always encouraged us to take time to go for a bush walk, and notice the little things…
My children are primary school age and I have worked with their school community to enrich their play and learning spaces with exciting and inviting low-cost play elements. This has led me on a path to share my knowledge and experience with others.
Being outside is a huge part of my life, allowing my children to spend time in nature and experience the joy that it brings has brought my childhood memories flooding back.
The recent loss of my parents within twelve months of each other gave me pause to realise my passion and how I can share the legacy of my parents and our story for future generations to come…
Connect with Cath Fitzhardinge:
Anecdotal Research - Can assist schools looking at creating nature play spaces
Tool for Observing Play Outdoors - Loebach, J. & Cox, A. (2020)
Stay Connected with Dr Amie Fabry:
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Amie Fabry (00:06)
Hello friends and welcome back to Leading the Early Years for the Future. I'm your host, Amy Fabry, and today I would love to introduce you to Kath Fitzharding. Kath is an occupational therapist, a nature space consultant, and a nature play advocate. Thank you for the amazing work you do, Kath, and thank you for joining me today.
Cath Fitzhardinge (00:26)
Thanks, Amy, it's nice to see you and nice to talk to you today. I've been listening to your episodes and loving what you're doing. So thanks for having me.
Amie Fabry (00:33)
my pleasure. Now, Cath, the first question which you might be familiar with that I ask all of the guests on the podcast is, do you have a hidden talent or something that might light you up beyond the work that you do?
Cath Fitzhardinge (00:47)
Yeah, I have thought about it. Yeah. And I guess in terms of a hidden talent that I actually, kind of work, work to make it happen. Although a lot of people think it's hidden is remembering children's names and remembering people's names. And that's something that I inherited from my dad who was a school principal and he knew everybody's names. And, and I also really appreciate it when people remember my name or children remember my name.
Cath Fitzhardinge (01:12)
I just think it's something really strong and connecting about that. that's something that I would say people think, people tell me that I'm, have a crazy ability to remember names. And on the flip side, something that lights me up is I was just thinking, just jumping off a jetty, jumping into water. That's what lights me up.
Amie Fabry (01:28)
That is so beautiful. And, you know, great connections to the work you do as well, which I love. But the name thing is so important, isn't it? And I must admit, when I was an educator, I had a really good memory for people's names. Like I would learn all the children in my class within a day, all their parents sort of the next day. But as I'm not doing that anymore, I actually have found my ability to remember names has waned a little bit. So it takes a bit more effort.
on my behalf, but I totally agree with you. Like when someone remembers your name and uses your name, it is such a beautiful way to connect with people and to feel noticed. So that is a remarkable skill. I love that. And you know, who doesn't love jumping off a jetty? So exhilarating and the fresh water, like so beautiful, which is a nice segue really into asking you about the work that you do. Can you tell us about the work that you do, Kath?
Cath Fitzhardinge (02:05)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah, sure. Look, so I'm an occupational therapist. I've been working in lots of different clinical areas across the state of Western Australia and in the UK over the last 20 years. Lots of different areas. And I guess maybe probably a better way of introducing what I'm doing now, because it's a bit of a trying to draw a bit of a link is the way that I grew up, really. So if I go back to my childhood, I grew up, my dad was my school principal in small country towns.
So the schoolyard was my backyard really, as well as the beach and the bush. So was very lucky there. And I guess as a child, yeah, really always playing outdoors and engaging with friends and being outside and loving that. And fast forward to my study as an occupational therapist, you know, obviously we learn a lot about child development and part of our work is really working with children. If you're working in that,
Cath Fitzhardinge (03:12)
field, which I have done, and really advocating for their ability to thrive in whatever way, or form it is. So whether it's through accessibility, being able to access spaces for play, but also in schools and looking at those sorts of things as well and really supporting them to thrive.
But yeah, as I've kind of worked in different areas, I've always advocated for people to be outdoors. So whether it is children or adults in mental health or older adults as well, it's really been part of my philosophy for health and wellbeing is connecting to the outdoors. And I guess, yeah, that's kind of takes me to...
Cath Fitzhardinge (03:48)
where I am today in that I was working clinically in a very different space in hand therapy. So people who had major injuries in their hands, upper limbs and working with them clinically to rehabilitate and incorporating outdoors where and whenever possible. But at that stage, which was about five years ago, tragically, I lost my beautiful mum, which was a real shock to the whole family.
and happened very quickly. And then sadly, a year later, my dad passed away and I kind of cared for him over the year and watched him sadly fade away, but really connected with him in that time because time is precious, right? And he shared lots of his insights as being a dad first and foremost, but also as a school headmaster and really asking him lots of questions that, you know,
Cath Fitzhardinge (04:35)
hadn't had the opportunity to ask before because my children were there at that point starting primary school. So learning about primary school, learning how it all works, working with my kids school to enhance the outdoor spaces and asking him questions about that. And yes, sadly, he passed away a year later. And I guess it was at that point when I was thinking, what do I do now? A really tough couple of years and just thinking.
Cath Fitzhardinge (04:58)
I can't go back to working in a hospital. It was just not the right thing for me, obviously. And yeah, it just had an epiphany at one point, driving my kids out to a cool nature play space and kind of thought, how can I connect my 20 years of being an occupational therapist? I don't want to throw that all away. To my passion for being outside, my passion for supporting and advocating kids to thrive.
Cath Fitzhardinge (05:24)
and my connection with my mum and dad really. Yeah, so that is a big long story about how I got to where I am today, which is really advocating, as you said, advocating for children to be outdoors in lots of different ways. I've done some research as well, which we'll talk about later. And really just wanting to share that passion of, yeah, connecting with nature.
Cath Fitzhardinge (05:47)
in any way, shape or form. And that doesn't need to be, you know, really expensive opportunities to go up to Ningaloo Reef or something like that. It's your everyday connection to nature, which I feel everyone can do and just want to share that. yeah, that's. Yeah.
Amie Fabry (05:56)
That's beautiful. What a wonderful story. Thank you so much for sharing, you know, the personal as well. I really love hearing about how people get into the work they do, because on the surface, it might look like, you know, this is just an interest or something that you think, but you know, you can I can hear the real passion that you have for nature, but it's so connected to your personal story, your family, which is a really powerful.
purpose, right? Like to drive you to do this work, to be an advocate and to support, you know, children and families and schools. My question is, why nature? What is it about nature that is so important for you to be doing this work and bringing that connection to nature?
Cath Fitzhardinge (06:38)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I guess again, growing up in the country, it was surrounding me, it's always with me, I always need it, you know, and going through different life phases, you know, with brand new kids, just going through the struggle of newborns and realising that, you know, just stepping outside of the house, you know, those first couple of weeks was just so liberating and refreshing. And the ability
Cath Fitzhardinge (07:10)
the fur, yeah, I guess just stepping out under the trees to kind of calm my son at the time. It really calmed me, was really something that sits with me and I can feel that. So I guess just experiencing that through his eyes and then my daughter's eyes as well. But then extending that to, I guess that, you know, now that I've done a lot of research about
Cath Fitzhardinge (07:32)
the limitations for children to be able to access nature and adults as well as our world moves forward and technology takes over. I guess, you know, I move past just not just the nostalgic feeling of wanting my kids to have kind of what I want, I had as a child, you're really realising that it's essential, you know, and it's not just my children, it's every child and every adult that.
Cath Fitzhardinge (07:56)
that needs nature. We are nature, we are part of nature and I guess that really trying to bring that connection together, whether it's just through crushing a leaf and smelling it, which my mum used to do on our walks, know. Again, it's all that connection of just noticing nature and noticing how it can make us feel just in a day-to-day basis. Like I said, it doesn't have to be.
Cath Fitzhardinge (08:17)
huge nature walks or anything like that can just be stepping outside. And that's what I also need to talk about with young parents as well. It's a challenge, it's a real challenge even to get down to the local park, but how can we incorporate nature into our everyday?
Amie Fabry (08:21)
Hmm, beautiful. I'd love to dive into your research a bit. What is it that you found, you know, to either be the limitations that you mentioned, you know, a few obvious things obviously come to mind, the fast pace of life and, you know, for our children, they're not playing outside as much, they're playing more indoors or they're in structured activities as opposed to just climbing trees, going down to the park, being in the street perhaps. But at a deeper level, like what are some, what is some of the impact that we're seeing perhaps for children or even for us as adults, if we're not getting into nature.
Cath Fitzhardinge (09:02)
Yeah, I guess for me it's a combination of nature and play, I would say, particularly for children. So it's that ability and yeah, again, it's all those pressures that you talk about and that maybe that social media side of things and the pressure to, you know, have your child enrolled in every type of sport or whatever, just in case they might tell in it, that kind of thing.
Cath Fitzhardinge (09:22)
But it's also, I guess for me as an occupational therapist, going back to my study, you know, 20 plus years ago, that understanding of child development and my real innate trust in play, which, you know, if you haven't got that background, know, play can just be, look like a frivolous kind of thing and be pushed aside and pushed out of children's lives. So I suppose as an advocate, as an occupational therapist, as a professional, it's really...
highlighting the importance of that play, but for me also in the outdoors, so you get a bang for your buck, I suppose, is really where it comes from. And yeah, pressures from lots of different areas. And what my research specifically is looking at how children are playing in an intentionally designed nature play space in a primary school, in a primary school, so a case study.
Cath Fitzhardinge (10:08)
So I'm really interested in how children are playing in school because I feel that's a really treasured part of the day for recess and lunch where children have the opportunity to play freely, which may not have lot of children any other time, you know, might be straight home, straight onto, you know, the Nintendo, whatever, or straight to swimming lessons or piano lessons. So it's really that kind of last opportunity for that real free play, but also that really collaborative, creative,
Cath Fitzhardinge (10:35)
imaginative play when there's lots of other kids around as well. which in itself. So that's what I have looked at. And again, I guess, combining that looking at that play, but also in that natural more natural environment, which is where a lot of you would have noticed a lot of schools are kind of moving to that more nature play space. Also community playgrounds are moving in that direction as well.
Cath Fitzhardinge (11:01)
So really we want to know a little bit more about what works in those spaces. Why are we designing it in this way? How can we design it better for all children in terms of accessibility, in terms of neurodiversity and in terms of an outdoor play space in a school being really valued for a resource that it is. And that's kind of again, that full circle to my childhood and my school being my backyard. Like it was,
Cath Fitzhardinge (11:28)
really special to me and yeah really hoping to advocate for more of those experiences for kids for years to come.
Amie Fabry (11:35)
Beautiful. What inspiring work you do. And your research sounds really fascinating. I think I could probably spend an hour talking to you just about that. But I'm really keen to hear Kath, know, particularly for educators, even parents, anyone listening who, you know, we do talk a lot about nature-based play, nature playgrounds, and to some extent, you know, it can feel like a bit of a new fad.
Amie Fabry (11:59)
or a trend or a buzzword. To get a little deeper though, is the benefit of playing in nature versus playing inside with blocks or puzzles or dramatic play? Like what is the benefit for nature play?
Cath Fitzhardinge (12:12)
Yeah, sure. One of the kind of models that I like to share from an occupational therapy perspective that I think is really helpful for parents and other professionals as well is, you know, the sensory integration model and I use an analogy of the house, so building a house and thinking about the foundation of the house. Your foundation are your senses, so taste, touch, smell, sight, hearing, but also we've got other senses, so vestibular and
Cath Fitzhardinge (12:36)
proprioceptive sense, so your vestibular is kind of your movement sense, your proprioceptive is your body awareness sense. I mean there's another sense called interoception which is more the internal kind of senses as well. Again we could talk for hours on that. But in terms of creating an environment that is sensory rich but not sensory overloading or overpowering for somebody, nature is your best bet there. So you think about all the colours, the smells, the sights, the sounds.
Cath Fitzhardinge (13:01)
It is a really sensory rich, but it's not overpowering. You're going to be more likely, you know, held in a kind of calm and alert state when you're outdoors than if you're inside in a noisy classroom with, you know, shiny surfaces and chairs screeching back and forth and, you know, like bright lights, bright, colorful posters and things everywhere. Children running into you, you know, essentially if you're outdoors.
Cath Fitzhardinge (13:26)
Number one, we all know there's going to be a lot more space, right? So everyone drops their guard a little bit in some ways. So we can be a lot messier outdoors. We can really engage in those sensory kind of play opportunities more so than we can inside. And I'm just thinking about myself and the way my kids play, you know, they're lot more free rein. And so I guess those senses are...
Cath Fitzhardinge (13:48)
you know, we're really having those opportunities to have that sensory play, that sensory connection, which again, if we go back to that house is the foundation of all learning as sensory beings, which we are as humans. And then on top of that, you've got the building blocks. So as we have that sensory information and we work that put that all together, we work on our things like our balance, our eye hand coordination, bilateral coordination. So using two hands to be able to do something and, you know, climbing a tree, need to able to use two hands and
Cath Fitzhardinge (14:16)
Again, because there's more space, there's more ability to move, to use our whole body. So climbing a tree is a great example of really beautiful proprioceptive input. So we're lifting our whole body weight up the tree, all arms and limbs are involved, and we have to be really switched on. Switched on to know how, you know, is that branch gonna hold my weight? What's that crackling sound? like, ooh, I might need to step down.
Cath Fitzhardinge (14:40)
looking down, seeing where my body is in space, am I a little bit high? Am I okay with this? What's my heart rate doing? Can I feel a little bit, you know, it's beating a little bit faster? Do I need to listen to my body? All those things are happening in nature. And then finally, if we think back to that house again, we need all that foundation and those preparatory kind of building blocks before the executive function or like the academic learning or the self-confidence, all those things come on top of the house.
why nature, why play is really those opportunities to get that foundational support for the development as children move further. So, yeah.
Amie Fabry (15:21)
Amazing, powerful. And as you were talking, my mind kind of was thinking about, you know, risky play as well. And, know, the importance of like, you're talking about situations where children are thinking about their own body in space. And, you know, I guess that there's always a safety element, like, is this branch going to hold me or, you know, what am I going to do? And where are the people around me? And, you know, like that, that is really important. And I know, you know, lots of researchers are talking about
fact that not only are children not playing outside, but they're also less engaged in risky play because they're not outside. And again, there's just so much learning that happens when children have a bit more freedom to take risks. And there's so much learning that happens when they can take risks, right? Which we just, you can't replicate that inside.
Cath Fitzhardinge (15:53)
Yes, absolutely. what part of my research is looking at is how children are playing and what is that looking at, know, in terms of child development and wellbeing and learning. And it's all three and learning in lots of different ways. So it might be outdoor learning in terms of classroom learning, learning outdoors or learning about the environment. But they're really learning about their bodies. They're learning about how to cooperate and collaborate with other children.
and I've taught my research about you know the 21st century skills so the critical thinking which comes into that with taking it's really kind of first version of kind of critical thinking you're putting all that information together the feeling of the tree swaying the wind coming in all that information needs to be put together as to whether I'm going to go a little bit further in the tree or I'm going to take myself down now. So those kind of things we see children are playing more collaboratively when they're
Cath Fitzhardinge (17:02)
in nature as well because there's essentially going to be a lot more loose parts or affordances or opportunities to create and play in those spaces as well and creative play as well. those 21st century skills that we will all need as we move forward, critical thinking, creativity, collaboration, cooperation, that's all happening all in one in that outdoor play. And again, it's just really highlighting that and showing the value of that because
Cath Fitzhardinge (17:29)
it needs to be protected, you know, and a lot of places, unfortunately, know, recesses and lunchtimes are being decreased for lots of reasons or being taken away for children for as a, you know, as a consequence for behaviors. So yeah, we need to really think about the value of that playtime and what's actually going on in there rather than just letting off steam as we used to say. So yeah.
Amie Fabry (17:38)
So important. You know, and you can, as you're explaining it, like it's so evident, just the rich affordances that nature play has for children and, you know, building those foundations like, like you're describing, it's not just about the academic side that we often just go to, right? And that's the roof. But but how do we actually provide those opportunities for children to build?
You know, the physical skills, but also those dispositions and those 21st century skills that you're talking about really are pivotal to even good academic success if that is what our focus is, right? But I think we really don't understand that well, particularly in our schools. I'd love to dive into your work as an advocate and the advocacy you do. Can you tell us?
Cath Fitzhardinge (18:25)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Amie Fabry (18:37)
about that. What does advocacy look like and what role does it play in your work?
Cath Fitzhardinge (18:41)
Yeah, I guess in terms of advocacy, I think I've always been an advocate, even, you know, well, I know I've been an advocate in my other walks of life as an occupational therapist, you know, you're working really closely with clients and you're wanting the best outcomes for them. So in the health profession, advocacy is just goes hand in hand with what we do. But I guess in this regard, I've moved from a more individual advocacy kind of framework to more systems.
Cath Fitzhardinge (19:07)
advocacy framework to make an impact on policy decisions, design decisions, school rules decisions, those kind of things that will then have an on flow effect onto the child. When I was preparing for this session, I did look up advocacy and if you don't mind, I'll just read out one of the definitions that I found, which is any action
Amie Fabry (19:07)
Yeah, please.
Cath Fitzhardinge (19:32)
Yeah, any action that speaks in favour of, recommends, argues for a cause, supports or defends or pleads on behalf of others. And for me, it's that behalf of others, it's and the others is the children, right? So as adults, that's a responsibility that a really strong responsibility that I feel is that advocating on behalf of children who may not have a voice, who often don't have a voice. And that will just continue.
till day's end really, know, children, need the support of adults advocating for their health and wellbeing needs. And particularly for my, in this case is really that, you know, that right, the child's right to play and advocating for that. And really the way that I advocate for that is I find evidence about the reason why it's important for children to play. So it's the research that I do.
It's the day-to-day thing, so it's with my children or other people's children. It's the way that I just am. It might be community advocacy, so attending early childhood events and sharing my knowledge and, you know, demonstrating ways that parents can connect with nature and play in really simple ways. And then even an example that I do personally a couple of years ago, I...
created a little mud kitchen on our verge out the front that I can see from here and I, you know, just put little bits and pieces out, pots and pans and, you know, I get joy every day from seeing grandparents bringing little ones past or families, you know, late at night, like six o'clock, seven o'clock before bedtime stopping past and making a cup of tea. So it goes across the board. So, yeah.
Amie Fabry (21:06)
That's beautiful. I love those examples because I was actually just going to ask you, what does it look like, you know, from a logistical sense? You know, and I'm thinking about early childhood educators in particular who might be listening and we often talk about advocacy, but then how do we actually do it in practice? Do you know what I mean? Like, and you've given lots of different, I guess, methods or strategies that you're using to advocate. And it sounds like you're really trying to advocate for different audiences. Is that right?
Cath Fitzhardinge (21:33)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah, so that systems kind of advocacy is again, where that research and presenting that at conferences and that kind of thing would be hopefully making an impact in that way. But, you know, taking that example for even just on the walk to school, you know, picking the flower and smelling it and or with other children, well, just taking those little moments. And I think was it Lail Stone was talking about imprints maybe on one of your.
Amie Fabry (21:57)
Yeah.
Cath Fitzhardinge (21:58)
you know, again, I go back to my mum and that's what she did for me. Like I always remember that on our walks, actually, or even, you know, just picking the basil out of the garden to put in the salad like and noticing the smell and, you know, those kinds of things. again, that brings me back to that sensory kind of framework that I'm embedded in as an occupational therapist. So, it's the little things, which I think are really important and that everyone can do in every day. doesn't mean to, it doesn't have to be every time of the day.
Cath Fitzhardinge (22:26)
But taking those opportunities and particularly with children, really sharing that awe and wonder with the kids. So those early childhoods that are listening, know, like those little moments when they come up with you and they've found a little bug or whatever, those are the opportunities where you can share that awe and wonder and they can see that you can feel that as well. And that will leave a imprint in them. And, you know, that's where that connection to nature begins.
Cath Fitzhardinge (22:51)
and also a connection between you and the child as well, which is really important.
Amie Fabry (22:55)
Yeah,
absolutely. I love that you're sharing, you you mentioned sharing your knowledge, which I think is such a, such a wonderful thing to do. And I think sometimes we can forget that, you know, not everyone knows what we know. And, you know, one of the things, I guess, one of my little mantras to remind myself to be an advocate is to, you know, share, share what you know, generously and, not keep it to yourself or think that people don't care. So I love that you're sharing.
you know, with anybody and everybody, but also role modeling, you know, that's really powerful just to, to actually be role modeling, you know, those connections to nature, whether it's with children, you know, the mud kitchen you've got out the front of your house, like that's just so beautiful, Kath. Why do you think advocacy is so important?
Cath Fitzhardinge (23:36)
guess in this case, you know, again, it's who you're advocating for. And generally, if you're advocating for someone, it's somebody who maybe doesn't have the voice to be able to do that. you know, it might be for refugees or it might be, you know, different groups of people that are in a minority or have challenges in everyday life for whatever reasons, for accessibility, for people with disabilities.
Amie Fabry (23:51)
Yeah.
Cath Fitzhardinge (23:57)
So yeah, it's being that voice, it's being that champion for that group of people where they may not have any other option really and it's helping them to move forward and I guess that's where it's important. And it's kind of working in lots of different ways and having looked into it a little bit more in terms of definitions.
Amie Fabry (24:07)
Hmm. Absolutely.
Cath Fitzhardinge (24:21)
It's really helped me actually because sometimes advocacy is a very thankless task I guess I have to be honest. A lot of voluntary work that we do you know I'm part of a lot of committees and you know even back to your PNC days as well. You're an advocate for your child's education and health and that's kind of where this whole journey started for me and was attending my child's when he hit kindio really wanted to be part of the PNC and
Cath Fitzhardinge (24:45)
I really was for a long time and still am. But we need that, Like schools need PNC, schools need parents and people that can add to, you know, maybe their school grounds or their resources that children have available. It's a need that, you know, people like myself and yourself as well, it's really important to keep that moving forward for children in schools. So, yeah.
Amie Fabry (24:58)
Absolutely. And I imagine that, you know, even within your school PNC, you would bring expertise that others may not have. you know, just bringing, again, what you know, and sharing your knowledge to a conversation just enriches, you know, then what everybody can hopefully focus on as a priority or be aware of even.
That's so powerful. Do you have any lessons learned? You know, whether it's about advocacy or just being a leader in this space.
Cath Fitzhardinge (25:36)
Yeah, I guess one of the main things is, I think you touched on it before, Amy, was kind of sharing knowledge and maybe sharing our lens as well. So for me, as an occupational therapist, working with educators and designers, we're all coming to this space of learning environments and, you know, enhancing learning environments for children, but we're all coming from a really different lens. So I feel like and through my research, I've been
challenge to be really open about what my lens is as an occupational therapist and sharing that. So, kind of a really overview of that is really we look at one of the main models that we work with is the person environment occupational model of occupation performance. So if you think of a Venn diagram of those three things, you've got the person and all the things that they bring with them, their genetics, their personality, their age, their abilities.
Then you've got the environment, again, is it the cultural kind of environment, the physical environment, the supports that they have in terms of the environment as well, and then the occupation. So for example, what we're talking about is children and learning and play. So their occupation for me is play and learning through play. And what we know as an occupational therapist is if you look at that Venn diagram, the domain that is most easily impacted
in that is the environment. Okay, so we're not going to be able to change a child's genetics, we're not going to be able to change a personality, we may be able to improve some aspects if we're working on it. But one of the quick fix things that we can do is look at the environment and how that is impacting the child's ability to engage in whatever occupation that might be. So whether that is learning and whether the environment is kind of impacting on that negatively or positively.
that's what we can do. And I suppose that was my way of, you when I was speaking to my supervisors, a way of kind of sharing my lens, my view, and really people, I saw people go, okay, now I get it. Now I get why there's an OT in this design space kind of thing. yeah, answers the question, but it's really maybe the tip is really just sharing our perspectives because they are very different, but they all come together. Yeah.
Amie Fabry (27:27)
I love that so much. You know, recognizing your own lens, I think that's that's is really important to remember. Because we are also different. know, when particularly when you're advocating, you're sharing your knowledge, I think partly remembering that other people don't have the same experience, skill set, passion, knowledge that you do.
Cath Fitzhardinge (27:59)
Yes.
Amie Fabry (28:01)
But I also love that, you know, even that model you're talking about, person, environments, occupations, you're really helping people to tap into where they can have influence. And I think often we get bogged down, particularly when we think system level, right? I can't do that because of the curriculum and I can't do that because of a timetable. And they might be the really big things that we actually can't change. So I love that model that you're actually helping people to connect with.
where they might actually be able to have some influence. you know, the environment is a really powerful place to start. I think that's, that's wonderful advice, you know, to kind of reach people where they're at, but help them in a practical sense. You know, and I think in early childhood, in particular, you know, we're drawing on evidence and research, but we're also drawing on theory, right, which has such a pivotal place.
Cath Fitzhardinge (28:35)
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (28:52)
when we're thinking about child development. But sometimes in the theoretical space, people get stuck because how do we turn that, how do we translate that into practice? What does it look like? So I love that you're focused on environments and I love that you bring the OT lens to these conversations about play and nature pedagogy because...
Cath Fitzhardinge (28:58)
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (29:13)
You know, again, that's that's a skill set that some of our educators don't have. They don't have the depths of knowledge. I don't have the depth of knowledge that you have. Do know what I mean? you know, again, to look, look below the surface of the academic kind of learning, which is where we often focus, but to think more deeply about what's going on in a child's body and how is that how are those skills going to support them with learning? Yeah.
Cath Fitzhardinge (29:34)
Yeah,
yeah and I think you know one of the challenges that I hear from educators is and you know the ability to really give that play-based kind of focus is that pressure maybe from administration or parents or whatever in their ability to articulate why the children are playing.
Right. So I guess I'm adding that extra kind of lens on onto that that they can add into their vocabulary of explaining why we're letting, you know, we're encouraging the children to be outdoors more and we're doing all of this. And I really see that's where my role as an occupational therapist is really championing educators who know innately that being outdoors and having more play is the right thing to do. Right. But it's having that extra kind of.
Cath Fitzhardinge (30:18)
another professional coming in from a health perspective that's really backing that up and then they can move forward and explain that to parents or explain that to administration. Yeah, really being a cheerleader for you guys. So, yeah.
Amie Fabry (30:31)
Mm. That's so brilliant because, know, I think to, and one of the reasons, you know, this season is focusing on advocacy is because whilst we have, you know, incredible professionals like yourself who are really strong advocates, I love that you're actually helping our educators to become advocates as well, because, you know, it takes all of us to keep having these conversations. And, you know, like you said, not just from a sense of passion and I know play is important, but
Cath Fitzhardinge (30:51)
Yes. Yes.
Amie Fabry (30:58)
here's some of the reasons why it's important to be able to really articulate, you know, the skills and the development and what's going on for children that, like I said, we don't see on the surface unless you are attuned to that and you have that knowledge. That's really powerful work, Kath, and so, so important. It's so inspiring. You talk about this work that you're doing. I just love it so much. It's so exciting.
Cath Fitzhardinge (31:16)
Thank you.
Amie Fabry (31:20)
Advocacy is clearly very important. Have you faced any challenges though, in terms of this work or, you know, being an advocate for nature play, for play in general?
Cath Fitzhardinge (31:31)
challenges would be well, you know, personal challenges. It's again, it's a lot of voluntary work, you know, after research and it's, I guess it's not a recognised, I wouldn't say profession. It's, you know, you're in, you're doing a job, it's, yeah, where, how can I, it's one of my challenges and I would ask you as well, like, how can I do this better to support people?
Cath Fitzhardinge (31:52)
but also be recognised in doing that. think people as advocates, it's, yeah, it is a passionate kind of thing, but I guess it's a leadership thing as well, as well. If you're in that space where you are a leader, it's an add-on to what you're doing is really sharing advocacy kind of role. I guess it is, yeah, the challenges are where, you know, you get pushed back on, we need to fit so many other things in.
Cath Fitzhardinge (32:17)
because we know we need to do this, what is the evidence? And then that challenge is, okay, right, I've got to do research. So my research has been gone the last two and a half years of really doing that. So I guess that's where my challenge would lie is finding how do I do this work and maybe get some kind of remuneration for it. That would be nice. That makes sense, right? You know, it's a reality as well. So yeah.
Amie Fabry (32:31)
Hmm. Yeah, totally.
Cath Fitzhardinge (32:46)
It's hard for people. I was going to say it's hard for people that, you know, you're passionate about something and this could be in lots of different ways about climate, you know, sustainability. There's people working in these spaces that are just doing so much work and it's all, you know, maybe some of it is paid, a lot of it is voluntary. So I guess that's where the challenge lies and then reality sets in and, you know, you have to go back to.
Cath Fitzhardinge (33:12)
a paid job, right?
So that would be my main challenge.
Amie Fabry (33:17)
It's a big challenge
actually. And I think, you know, some of the educators that I talk to and, you know, if I encourage them to say, join, join one of our not for proper organizations and you know, I don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time. And, and I completely appreciate that. You know, like I work full time, I've got a family at home. It is really hard, right? To find time or prioritize time.
Cath Fitzhardinge (33:26)
Yeah, so that's where maybe
like those different kind of levels of advocacy, you can be an advocate and not be on any kind of committee or board. It's like your everyday is advocating for children in the space that you're in, know, seeing that bug and showing that awe and wonder and you're advocating for that nature connection. So it doesn't need to be volunteering on every board and my husband would agree with that wholeheartedly.
Amie Fabry (33:51)
Hmm. Hmm.
So I mind. That's really
good advice actually, because I think, you know, it is about finding something that works for you and even works for you right now. And you know, right now or this year, it might be being advocate in your school or in your community, just in your classroom. You know, like, you know, you're finding lots of avenues for advocacy.
in your interactions with children in the mud kitchen at the front of your house, you know, it doesn't have to be as you're saying, you know, join a committee and become a spokesperson. And, you know, I know for a lot of people, it's quite terrifying, frankly, you know, to try and challenge or be an advocate at it in a more public arena or in a more system level, you know, when we're thinking about advocacy at that level. So yeah, I love that advice.
Amie Fabry (34:49)
Finding, I guess, the people in your more direct circle of influence that you can share what you know and be an advocate for them is a really good starting place and recognizing, you know, your time, your energy, all of those things. We can't be all things to all people. So we do have to, you know, focus on what's achievable, right?
Cath Fitzhardinge (35:01)
you
Absolutely, very true. And look after yourself as well. Yeah. I think advocates are generally well, you know, they're self advocacy as well. That's that's one of the main things and maybe advocates aren't so great at being self advocates. anyway,
Amie Fabry (35:21)
Yes, that is very true. That is very true. What a good point.
When you think about the future for children for early childhood, what comes to mind for you and what role do you perhaps see leadership having in shaping the future for our children?
Cath Fitzhardinge (35:39)
Yeah, I see, you know, speaking of being involved in committees and things like that, I am involved in quite a few and one in particular is the Play Matters Collective and Play Australia. And I see the hope and, you know, excitement for me is that movement forward and that push forward for the importance of play for children because we're pushing against it really.
a lot coming the other way in terms of technology and time and pressures and cost of living and all that kind of thing that comes into play. So yeah, my hope is that there are a lot of people advocating for play for children and adolescents as well, which is really interesting is that move, you know, with children coming into high school, you know, 11 years of age in Australia, they still need spaces to play and to move and to connect.
Cath Fitzhardinge (36:26)
So my hope is that, you know, those movements forward and advocacy for children's right to play will continue to, you know, to blossom and to thrive. And in turn, children will as well, because, you know, they're the experts in this. And I've been to a few forums recently where they've talked to the experts and the experts have talked to us and, you know, they're really passionate about their right to play and as they should be. So hearing more of that is really exciting.
Cath Fitzhardinge (36:52)
and hopeful for the future.
Amie Fabry (36:53)
That is so exciting. You know, and I think if I think about from a leadership lens, it's a real collective effort, right, to keep play on the agenda, not just in our, I guess, school communities or education-based communities, but even broader in society. And, you know, even thinking about leadership, you know, it comes from advocates like yourself who are having these conversations and sharing what we know, but also leadership from our
Amie Fabry (37:20)
young people, right? Like to also be spokespersons for their own futures and what they want and their own rights, you know, to have access to play. That is so powerful. And I'm just thinking now, you know, my brain's going down at rabbit hole, but you know, thinking about how we empower them to, you know, just like we've been talking about empowering educators to be really articulate, you know, empowering our children and young people to also be spokespeople.
Amie Fabry (37:47)
speak up confidently about what they need and what they want. That's really powerful, isn't it? gosh.
Cath Fitzhardinge (37:48)
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, also, you know, part of my research was looking at, well, I was talking to educators about how they use spaces, but I was really specifically looking at how children are playing in outdoor spaces. And one of the tools, well, the main tool that I used incorporates lots of different, nine different types of play.
Cath Fitzhardinge (38:12)
know, you're physical, you're expressive, imaginative, that kind of thing, but some new play types that have been introduced is restorative play and bio play and these children are speaking by me observing that the ways that they're playing, they're speaking to me, they're telling me this is how I need to play and a lot of it is restorative play and we see a lot more restorative play which might be, for example, a young child kind of sitting underneath what was a stage and kind of running
Cath Fitzhardinge (38:38)
his hands through mulch and kind of just watching what was going on. So for that child that's what he needed at that point in time and that restorative play is so important because we see it happen more so in how children play in schools comparatively to research that is done on looking at how children play in like community parks and things like that. So for me I'm seeing that
Cath Fitzhardinge (39:00)
children are needing this restorative play in between class times where they're holding themselves together for however long, a couple of hours, and they're needing that ability to restore themselves in lots of different ways. So I guess that's the way that children are telling us is by us as adults researching and seeing what they're doing. And that's one way of listening to them is observing how they're playing. So I think that's, for me, that's really exciting is to have that evidence and to be able to share that with people is like.
Amie Fabry (39:06)
Yeah, wow.
Mmm.
Cath Fitzhardinge (39:27)
Kids are saying they need this by the way that they're playing. We need to listen, we need to give them options, we need to give them abilities to move in really fast ways if that's what they want to be able to do and high and movement and that kind of thing. But we also on the flip side need that restorative play, particularly in schools. And the way that that seems to happen is through that kind of connection to nature and natural spaces. So yeah.
Amie Fabry (39:33)
Hmm
Wow, I have so many more questions for you now. Do you have a, I'm conscious of time, so I'll keep this quick, but do you have like a definition for restorative play? I mean, I can read between the lines, but I don't want to make assumptions. What is restorative play?
Cath Fitzhardinge (39:53)
Well, so the way that they supply it, sorry, I'm just gonna pull off my... The tool that I use is called the tool for using, tool for observing play outdoors. And it was, I can share the paper that it talks about with you and then we can put it in the notes by Janet Lovak and Adina Cox in 2020. So we've got physical, exploratory, imaginative,
Amie Fabry (40:18)
amazing.
Cath Fitzhardinge (40:27)
play with rules, expressive play, and those couple of other ones that we've added in with bio play. So that's when children, when you observe a child, you know, finding an insect and going, wow, look at this, or showing pro-environmental behaviors like, don't tread on that, you know, we need to let that plant grow, that kind of thing. So we're seeing those kinds of things through the play.
Cath Fitzhardinge (40:50)
and through interaction with wildlife like noticing a bird or talking about that as well. And then there's the digital play which is maybe we didn't see it, I didn't see, observe any because that doesn't happen in schools but it's where children might be engaged in using a device so like Pokemon Go or something like that or whether it's augmented in the playground so those playgrounds with sensory kind of spaces and you can press the button and it makes a noise that kind of thing.
Amie Fabry (41:07)
Yep. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Cath Fitzhardinge (41:16)
But yeah, back to restorative play. you've got that rest that within restorative play, you've got four types. You've got resting, retreat, reading and onlooking. So, you know, one of those four within that. So what I could see was that that child sitting under the stage, he needed to take himself away from that movement that was going on around him. He's resting, he's onlooking.
He's maybe using kind of that sensory kind of play, not in a... So the sensory play is a little bit more internal as opposed to, you you'll have sensory play and exploratory play where children are making sandcastles or they're squelching the mud to make a mud dry. So it's a little bit distinct from that. So, and again, onlooking, whereas before when people were studying play types,
Cath Fitzhardinge (42:04)
that wouldn't have been recorded as a play type. would have just been, they're not playing. So that was lost, right? So I think that's where this tool is really important, particularly because when we think of a playground, it's like, it's playing sport or it's an organized game or that kind of thing, but play can look very different to lots of different.
Cath Fitzhardinge (42:27)
children and look very different as an adult looking on.
Amie Fabry (42:31)
Absolutely.
That is so fascinating. And where my thinking is going is, is particularly in kind of that rest, retreat, restorative play, which, you know, as you said, could very easily just be overlooked as they're not engaged, as opposed to this is children who are needing rest, respite, connection to nature and
Amie Fabry (42:54)
know, if I think about our schools in particular, which are very fast paced places, there's a lot going on and often quick wear onto the next thing, stop that, do this, do that, you know, I can see a real need for restorative play. And you know, we know the connections between play and wellbeing and mental health anyway. So I'm just going to give you one last question. If you're an educator or a parent, how
Amie Fabry (43:19)
can we be attuned to what our children are really showing us through their play? That might not be an easy question to answer. But you know, what, do you have any suggestions for parents or educators? Because I'm just thinking, you know, if I was back in the classroom now, I would be really intrigued and I am really fascinated by this. How do we know what to look for then? You know,
when on the surface it might just look like that child's tired or they've just, you know, had enough or they're not engaged or they're bored or, you know, like, how do we really tune into what children are showing us and trying to communicate even through their body language? Cause they're not going to come and say, I just need to sit here and play in the mulch cause it's calming me down. You know, like how do we as educators and parents become more attuned to what's happening for our children?
Cath Fitzhardinge (43:55)
Mm.
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good question. And I guess going from my, you know, if I think back to this research where I've really specifically used this tool, you know, I could see patterns, right? So you could see patterns. I was only there for two weeks, but it was every recess and lunch. And you could see particular patterns for particular children. Now, I was not recording any individual traits of any children. was really looking.
Cath Fitzhardinge (44:27)
specifically at the type of play that that child was engaged in. But back in my further lens, you could see that there were particular children who would do the similar kind of each time, or they would have a little routine each time, each play time. So it's really just using that observation and over time, and I guess looking at those patterns and relating those patterns back to, gosh, they've just been at assembly and been sat for.
an hour or whatever and then it's this type of play that we see after that. So it's really kind of putting those puzzle pieces together. Does that make sense?
Amie Fabry (44:57)
Yeah,
it makes a lot of sense. And you know, I've really asked you a tricky question, because I'm sure there's a lot to unpack, you know, just even in thinking about all the different play types. But that is really good advice. I think looking for those patterns is is key because, yeah, and because you know, not every child is is going to show up the same way. So children are going to
Cath Fitzhardinge (45:09)
Mmm.
and preference groups.
Amie Fabry (45:20)
perhaps need restorative play at different times and some children might not need it till they get home and others in more frequently all of those kinds of things. And I guess that's a really good reminder too, as the adults in these child's worlds and lives, that play is so important. Where are we showing up to observe, to notice or even be engaged in their play with them?
Cath Fitzhardinge (45:24)
Yes.
Amie Fabry (45:44)
as opposed to just letting them go. And there's a place for that, of course, know, free plays is really powerful and unsupervised play. But I think that is actually just a really powerful reminder that do we notice what's going on in children's play or do we just let them go and we go and do other things?
Cath Fitzhardinge (45:59)
Yeah, and I understand that, know, know educators are so busy, you know, and my focus at that point really was looking at play and I could tell you all, I recap each recess and lunch, but, you know, and educators, you've got a lot going on in that time, but if there is something that you're wondering is maybe, yeah, maybe use that as a little case study is just watch little Johnny, what's happening in the play space.
Amie Fabry (46:02)
So busy. Mmm. Yeah.
Cath Fitzhardinge (46:24)
and kind of just yeah think what type of play is going, is he needed to move more or is he taking himself away from the faster moving pace or is he you know running his hands through the sand or is he always getting into the water and always getting dirty that kind of thing. So yeah just use that lens to kind of help you you know put the puzzle together maybe.
Amie Fabry (46:43)
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you can't do everything for every child in every moment. you know, yeah, but I think where there's a curiosity to learn more is often a space to lean into observing children in play too. That's beautiful. Kath, before we finish, there, do you have any final thoughts, advice, words of wisdom that you'd just love to leave our listeners with?
Cath Fitzhardinge (46:47)
Yeah, I guess for me it comes back to that those imprints that we can share with children and for me a simple way of sharing that imprint is just noticing. So noticing things, noticing things from a whole sensory perspective. So if it is a little bug that a child has found it's looking at the sights, the smells around it, it's kind of embedding and
Cath Fitzhardinge (47:30)
helping children to notice what's going on around them and their body as well in terms of that sensory integration and taking the time to do that and really help them to get grounded in their bodies and making that kind of a maybe a little practice that you can not do every day but just yeah just think back to what it is to be a child and finding the Slater for the first time and sharing that excitement and that awe and wonder with them I think is really important and something that I try to do.
Cath Fitzhardinge (47:56)
in my everyday.
Amie Fabry (47:57)
Such a beautiful reminder to be present to right be in the moment. I love that. Thank you so much for your time and sharing your wonderful wealth of knowledge and experience and wisdom. I've learned so much from you and loved chatting with you today.
Cath Fitzhardinge (48:11)
Awesome.
Thanks Amy, thanks so much for having me.
Amie Fabry (48:14)
Pleasure.
