S2E2 - Stacy Benge: Earlier Is Not Better
If we continue prioritising early academic instruction over child-led play, are we unintentionally creating the very literacy crisis we’re trying to solve?
What would shift in our education systems if we treated early childhood educators as the experts in child development that they are—rather than expecting them to conform to top-down academic mandates?
In this energising episode of Leading the Early Years for the Future, host Dr Amie Fabry is joined by Stacy Benge—early childhood educator, speaker, and author of The Whole Child Alphabet. With over 30 years of experience, Stacy challenges the “earlier is better” narrative in literacy and shines a light on the crucial, often-overlooked developmental foundations that support reading and writing. Together, they unpack why true literacy starts long before phonics—through physical development, visual perception, and rich, child-led play. Stacy shares practical strategies, powerful metaphors, and tools educators can use to advocate for developmentally responsive practices in their classrooms and communities.
If you’re an early childhood educator, leader, or advocate, this conversation will remind you of the power of play—and your role in protecting it.
Stacy Benge is an early childhood speaker who approaches learning in the early years with practicality and common sense. Standing firm on the truth that children learn best through simple, authentic experiences, Stacy advocates for child-led play to build solid foundations for child development. In addition to a Master of Science degree in Human Development and Family Studies, Stacy spent 10 years in the early childhood classroom teaching children ages birth to five. As she has for the past 20 years, Stacy shares her passion for child development with fellow early learning professionals with enlightening and informative presentations.
Stacy is the author of The Whole Child Alphabet: How Children Actually Develop Literacy published by Exchange Press. She is available for keynote presentations. Located in Texas, she presents virtually, locally, nationally, and internationally.
Connect with Stacy Benge:
5 Mistakes Early Childhood Professionals Make When Teaching Literacy (and How to Fix Them) - Free Guide
Book - The Whole Child Alphabet: How Young Children Actually Develop Literacy
Kindle version - The Whole Child Alphabet: How Young Children Actually Develop Literacy
Stay Connected with Dr Amie Fabry:
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Amie Fabry (00:00)
Hello friends and welcome back to Leading the Early Years for the Future. Today I have the joy of speaking with Stacy Benge an early childhood educator, speaker, leader and advocate from Texas. Stacy has a Masters of Human Development and 30 years of experience in early childhood. She's also the author of The Whole Child Alphabet, How Children Actually Develop Literacy. Thank you so much for joining me today, Stacy. It's such a joy to meet you.
Stacy Benge (00:31)
⁓ thank you so much for having me.
Amie Fabry (00:34)
It's absolutely my pleasure. We crossed paths on social media on LinkedIn, I think. And I am so delighted to have this conversation with you because to me on my LinkedIn feed, you were just a breath of fresh air in your posts, particularly around literacy and talking common sense, you know, actually about child development. So I'm really keen to learn from you today more about your experience, the work that you do, but also to tap into your journey as a leader. The first thing I always ask my guests
Stacy is something is for them to share something about themselves that other people may not know about them. It could be a hidden talent, maybe a skill, an interest. Is there something that just lights you up outside of your professional role and that work that you do?
Stacy Benge (01:24)
And yeah, so I started taking dance at age of two and still take dance today. Like I still take a tap class. so dance has always been a big thing in my life. I joke if I had a strong singing voice, I might have pursued theater in some sort, but I don't have the strongest voice. So here I am. but yeah, my, my joy and my youngest son actually just got married over the summer.
Amie Fabry (01:29)
Wow!
Stacy Benge (01:51)
And we did a really fun mother-son dance at the reception and surprised everybody with, you know, we started out slow, but then went into like a really fun choreographed dance. So yeah, so I say that's a thing that brings me joy.
Amie Fabry (02:06)
What a huge skill. And yes, I can imagine that would bring you joy. What a beautiful thing to be able to also do with your son and his wedding. Like that's just so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. I love learning about people. You know, we're such complex human beings. We're not just the professional role. It's so great to, you know, kind of connect with the sometimes the more human side of us. So thank you for sharing that. I'd love to now dive into the work that you do and learn more about your role as a facilitator, a speaker, an author.
Stacy Benge (02:10)
Yeah.
it
Okay.
Amie Fabry (02:35)
a consultant in early childhood education. Can you talk us through this work that you do?
Stacy Benge (02:41)
Yeah, so, you know, I'm in the Dallas, Texas area and I really started in this field when I was in high school doing after school care. And then when I was in college, I started teaching preschool and I, my original major in college was speech and language pathology, but I ended up changing my focus to child development. And once I got out of college and actually had my children, stepped back into the classroom.
and taught and worked with children birth to five. And then when my youngest son started kindergarten, which is age five over here, I stepped out of the classroom and started really kind of following my passion of speaking and doing professional development and training and did that for a while. And what I started to learn about myself is I could talk about
a lot of things that really connected to the classroom and connected to children and child development. But I got super, super excited when I could start talking about language development, physical development, and how all that connects to literacy and then child led play. And so probably like seven, eight years ago, I really kind of revised the offerings I had of my topics and stopped doing
Stacy Benge (04:06)
social and emotional, which that's very important. It just, I didn't get excited about it. And I stopped doing things on math or STEM and just started honing in on what, what gave me joy and what I got excited about. Because I found that when I was passionate about the topic and I got excited about it, that my attendees got excited about it. And that's, you know, I felt like it just kind of was really this, like we started feeding off of each other. And I had this one.
Stacy Benge (04:36)
training called Do This, Not That Alphabet Knowledge. And it really was written in response to visiting classrooms and seeing a lot of teachers doing letter of the week or doing some practices that really were not connecting with the children. And I would have a conversation with the teachers after observing the classrooms and saying, okay, I noticed you were doing this. you know, and I would kind of say, you know, we've got to look at literacy foundations.
And then a lot of times the teachers would say to me, okay, I understand what you're saying, but tell us specifically what we should be doing. And that's what, that's when I wrote that, sorry, that training on alphabet knowledge. And what I found was like, after I presented that, people kept saying to me, you should write a book. You should write a book on this training. And I kept going, you know, just the timing's not right. I'm just, you know, I wasn't quite feeling it. And then in August of 2020,
Stacy Benge (05:34)
We were in the middle of COVID and both of my sons at that point went off to college. So my husband and I became empty nesters and my husband's like, this is your time. So I sat down and wrote the proposal for my book. And even though it's mainly based on that one training I just mentioned, I brought in, know, things from my other training, sorry, trainings as well. But I sent a proposal and
Stacy Benge (06:02)
got an offer from Exchange Press and started that writing process. And the book came out last year. And so it's been fun since it came out, just the doors that it's starting to open. But yeah, but just that the foundations of literacy is what I get excited about. And it's not what we're teaching, but looking at what needs to develop. Like, how do we foster this development in young children?
Stacy Benge (06:27)
And I firmly believe if we shift our focus to that and give children plenty of time to develop those foundational skills, they will be successful readers and writers when that time comes for them.
Amie Fabry (06:41)
Wow, amazing. That's such a great story. I love it. No, it's a wonderful story. I have so many questions. So literacy, tell me about literacy. You know, you mentioned you were started out, I guess, more focused on the whole child and, you know, social emotional development and all those other aspects. But you mentioned, you know, the literacy aspect kind of brought you some joy. And then you noticed that in your attendees,
Stacy Benge (06:47)
It's kind of a lost story, but yeah.
Amie Fabry (07:10)
Tell me more about literacy. What is it about literacy for you that I guess lights you up and you feel called to really step into that particular space?
Stacy Benge (07:20)
You know, and I was actually having a conversation with somebody yesterday about this, and it's not so much me saying this is how we teach children to read or this is how we teach them to write. It's to me, it's the analyzing and the recognizing what needs to be there first. So,
And this is what I really kind of break down in my book, but it's that visual perception. So before children can recognize the letters, which are needed to decode, their brain has to connect with the eyes. And it's not just our eyesight, but it's the brain interpreting and understanding what's coming in through the eye. So that's like our form constancy, our... We'll have to cut that one out.
Sorry, let me start that over again. So, okay, looking at the visual perception. So it's the brain understanding what's coming in from the eyes. So that can be our form constancy, our visual closure, figure ground, which is, I say the best example of that is like if you're doing an Easter egg hunt or, you know, going and finding stuff of that nature, your brain is looking for those figures and pulling it from the background. Well, that's what our, our, our
Amie Fabry (08:12)
All good. All good.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Stacy Benge (08:40)
brains do when we're reading, it's pulling the words from the page, but also pulling the individual words that we're reading. So those foundational things are why that's important. And then it's the phonological awareness. So it's the brain's ability to attune to the sounds of language and really separate it from the meaning of language. But one of the things I say is how can we expect children to
Amie Fabry (08:45)
Yep.
Hmm
Stacy Benge (09:09)
assign sounds to the letters or to decode words when their brains haven't developed the ability to hear and produce all those sounds, you know? And so making sure that that foundation is there. Well, how does that develop? Well, through children having conversations and playing and hearing actual language. And then I get very, very excited when we talk about the physical aspect of it. And I think this is something that we overlook when we talk about literacy. But
Amie Fabry (09:18)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Stacy Benge (09:39)
understanding the handwriting, you know, that that that's not just a fine motor skill, that's an entire body process. So, you know, the movement of the hand depends on the wrist that depends on the elbow depends on the shoulder depends on the neck and torso. Well, that develops with children climbing and playing on the playground. We are brains ability to take isolate body parts and take them across the body. And so that's our eyes going left or right when we're reading.
Amie Fabry (09:47)
you
Stacy Benge (10:09)
or a hand going across, you know, that requires that midline development. And then we have our internal senses, which is our vestibular system, which is our sense of balance. That's what keeps our head steady. That's what keeps our eyes steady on the line. And then we have the proprioceptive system, which is the brain regulating how much strength is needed for a task. So that's like when we're turning pages of a book.
Amie Fabry (10:11)
Yeah, wow.
Stacy Benge (10:33)
It is, know, how much strength do I use on this so I don't rip the page? Or how much pressure do I put on the pencil and how much pressure I put on the page when I'm writing? So all of those foundational skills, I just get super, super excited about. I find, you especially over here in the States, especially right now, we're talking so much about literacy and reading levels and...
you know, and then we talk about, what's the instruction we should be doing or how should we be teaching it better? And I'm kind of over here going, no, we need to look, we need to look at these foundational skills that probably have not developed for a lot of these kids because we've not given them the opportunity because we robbed children of their play for direct instruction. And so we end up with children in the fourth and the eighth grade, which over here would be like 10 years old and like 13, 14 years old.
Amie Fabry (11:07)
Yeah, right.
Stacy Benge (11:31)
who are struggling with reading, you know. And so to me, you know, when I get excited about literacy, it's that foundation that supports it.
Amie Fabry (11:33)
Hmm.
It's so brilliant, Stacy. I love your enthusiasm and your energy and excitement for this, you know. And I think it's so important though, because, and I can see how the educators you work with would also get really excited hearing you talk about this. What I'm reflecting on is when I was going through my early childhood training at university. And I remember learning about all of these complexities that are actually involved in, you know, building those foundations for literacy.
that it wasn't just about instruction in phonics, but actually, you know, the listening and the physical skills that children also need. And it's really the whole child that we're developing so that they, you know, build those strong foundations and then become literate. Without all of those, you know, struggles like you're talking about, whether it's eye tracking or, you know, I don't have the physical strength to actually hold my head still or, you know, hold the pen on the page and...
Amie Fabry (12:37)
you know, we see all these little things that happen, but if you're not attuned to that as an educator, it's really hard, I guess, to focus on how do I support a child to build those foundations without just going to the phonics, you know, and over here in Australia, we've also probably had very similar conversations to what you're having in the US around how do we teach reading and how do we get our kids to know the letters and the sounds and spell properly and to code. But I think for me, I'm constantly reflecting that
Amie Fabry (13:06)
we're not spending enough time building those foundations. And I do think it's partly because we don't talk about those anymore. So I think that's why I'm so excited about the work that you're doing to bring that whole child lens back to the front of building those literacy foundations. But I think it's so pertinent too, because as you mentioned, our children aren't playing as much. And that's where they actually build all of these skills, like the physical skills, for example.
Amie Fabry (13:36)
If they're not playing
in school because they're, you know, sitting in desks or they're sitting on the, on the mat and they're getting more and more instruction, they're not building those skills. But also I think our children are not playing as much even before they get to school or in their time at home, you know, they're in structured activities, they're on screen. So they're not necessarily playing then either. And so for me, I guess I'm, I'm reflecting on what you're saying that
it's probably more prevalent than ever before that we actually need more play, right? And we need to be really focused
Amie Fabry (14:08)
on those foundational skills and how do we build them to help, really help our children to thrive as readers and writers and communicators. It's so fascinating. What amazing work you're doing. What does that look like for you? know, how do you help teachers to bring, I guess, these aspects into their practice?
Stacy Benge (14:32)
One of my goals through the book and through what I'm speaking is to first of all, like break down, OK, you know, the development that we were just talking about and really helping teachers recognize that, you know, because over here.
we might have a class or two. Like my degrees were actually focused on child development. So my degrees were different than some teachers who were in the classroom who have an education degree. But sometimes they might have a child development class, but that might've been a while or just in one semester you can't quite dig deep. So I try to help teachers.
Stacy Benge (15:11)
recognize that, you know, okay, let's get intricate with the development and let's just keep going deeper. And what's the foundation there and how can we break this apart? Because I find that when teachers understand that, that helps with conversations that they have with parents or administrators or policymakers or whoever it may be. So that's, that's always like one of the first steps that I take in my trainings or in conversations is, okay, let's look at the development.
Stacy Benge (15:39)
And then I like to look at, how does this develop? You know, which of course it's, you know, child led play. I always say spoiler alert, cause everything, I believe child led play is the answer to everything. But I tried to show, okay, through child led play, you know, first of all, this is how we design our environments to support that. You know, here's how we can, you know, make our schedules work for it. But, you know, first of all, design that environment, but then,
Stacy Benge (16:09)
How does this childhood play actually develop all these foundations that we're talking about? So giving them these talking points that they can show at, you I would say the stakeholders, to me that kind of just encompasses anybody who has an interest in what we're doing. But when we can tell stakeholders, okay, we know it looks like, it doesn't look like literacy, because I'm a firm believer that all play, no matter what the label, supports literacy, supports those literacy foundations.
Stacy Benge (16:39)
So given the teacher the tools to say, okay, I know it looks like they're just playing with blocks, but let me show you how all these things actually connect with these literacy foundations. I always kind of come back to that, again, visual perception, phonological awareness, and physical development. And so I try to give teachers those tools, so the why, the how, and then the talking points.
Stacy Benge (17:08)
So they feel
confident to be able to defend child led play in their classroom. And when we start saying, okay, we need more instruction on this, or again, over here in the States, this report came out, the fourth and eighth graders are behind in reading. Well, that's this whole push down thing that ends up on our two, three and four year olds of, okay, we've got to start this stuff earlier. So I try to help teachers give them.
Stacy Benge (17:34)
Give them the tools and the vocabulary so that they can confidently have these conversations and say, no, we're not doing that. And this is why. making sure they feel confident to know, I know what I'm doing. I don't have children playing just because I haven't planned anything. I'm intentionally having them playing because I know how that benefits building these strong foundations to support them.
Stacy Benge (18:04)
And then I always go on to say, know, that my, my, you know, passion is literacy, but honestly, if we put this across the board to any other subject or whatever, it's still, it's still the same.
Amie Fabry (18:04)
That's...
it's absolutely relevant, right? I love so much of what you've been saying. And I guess, you know, not that you're just explaining to teachers and helping them to build their understanding of why this is important, giving them tools and strategies to actually put it into practice, but that you're giving them the talking points because then they can advocate, right? You're talking about advocacy here. Why is that so important in this literacy space?
Stacy Benge (18:41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
I think there's a lot of probably misconceptions on on on expectations on just this. call it the earlier is better myth that if we just start everything earlier, then we'll get children more ahead. And and and I think we start to see a lot of practices that are not developmentally responsive or developmentally informed. And, you know, we start, you know, having two and three year olds.
Stacy Benge (19:15)
you know, putting pencils in their hands and having them tracing and or, or, you know, doing that the flashcards and worksheets and all that. And, um, you know, I think it's, it's just a lot of misconceptions and everybody has opinion on what we should be doing. So I just feel like as early childhood professionals, we we've got to protect the space and we, we have to take ownership as being, uh, as being the experts on what we know. Um, and I kind of feel like literacy cause
Stacy Benge (19:45)
For some reason, again, everybody just kind of has an opinion, but it's not necessarily based on what we know to be best.
Amie Fabry (19:49)
Yeah.
It's so true. So important and, you know, honouring that expertise that early childhood educators have to be part of those conversations and shift some of those perceptions that, you know, our colleagues or our school leaders or our system leaders might have about, you know, to really challenge that earlier is better because we are seeing more and more of that. And, you know, when we look at even data,
Stacy Benge (20:13)
again.
Amie Fabry (20:19)
it's not working in our favor, right? So, you know, we actually need to go back and do things differently. So I love that, you know, you're, you're really a passionate advocate for thinking about literacy through the lens of building those strong foundations, not just jumping into the phonics, not just taking the earlier is better approach, but that you're also empowering the educators you work with to also be advocates, right? Because, like as a leader,
Stacy Benge (20:21)
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (20:46)
You know, it sounds like you're doing some incredible work as a leader in this space, but we can't just rely on you, right? So we actually need lots of leaders. We need lots of leaders in this space to all be having these conversations, you know, in every kind of school community.
Stacy Benge (20:52)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. I, it's funny because I'll go speak and present and people ask, will you come talk to the parents? And I'm like, happily I will, but I'm like, it can't be just me. It's collectively, we all together have got to be planting the seeds and having the conversations. Because I think that's, that's what it's going to have to take for there to be a movement and be a change. And it's kind of really go more to that again, developmentally responsive.
Amie Fabry (21:12)
Hmm.
Thank
Stacy Benge (21:29)
environment supporting child led play.
Amie Fabry (21:33)
Absolutely. Stacy, I'm thinking about your journey as a leader, know, stepping into this work, being an advocate, which is so important. Do you face any challenges doing this work?
Stacy Benge (21:49)
yeah. And you know, I think a lot of times I probably like everybody else struggle with imposter syndrome. You know, and sometimes when things come out or I hear, you know, I have times I'm like, okay, and what I saying, is this correct? Is this, and then I have to kind of like recenter and go, no, I know this, you know, and I know this to be true. I think.
Stacy Benge (22:18)
Over here, know, a lot of times our schools that are serving children birth to five tend to be more on the private sector. And we're seeing this shift over here in the states of it going over to the school districts, which is public, which is fine. But it is going under professionals who have different certifications and different backgrounds. And it's we're seeing a little bit more, again, that pushing down that top down
Amie Fabry (22:28)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, right.
Stacy Benge (22:48)
academic push happening. And I think that's one of the struggles is me trying to step into that space and go, okay, I know what I'm talking about. This is my career has been dedicated to this. You know, and I think kind of getting people to hear and listen to that. And I had somebody one time saying, you're taking a completely different approach. I'm like, I really don't feel I am. I feel like I'm kind of staying true to what, you know, what we know with early childhood and
Amie Fabry (22:49)
Mm-hmm.
you
Hmm.
Stacy Benge (23:17)
So I think that that's a struggle too. And then just, you and I always come back to people hear what they wanna hear when they wanna hear it. you know, sometimes me say it is and, you know, talking with parents or, you know, again, other early childhood professionals and I just have to say to myself, okay, I planted the seed and at some point,
Amie Fabry (23:20)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so true.
Stacy Benge (23:41)
that's going to grow and blossom, but it might not be for a while. And so I have to remind myself of that sometimes as well.
Amie Fabry (23:43)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's really good advice actually, you know, to let things sit and you know that people are not always ready to hear what you might have to share. So that that would be really helpful reminder, is there any other strategies or things you've learned along the way, particularly around, I guess, advocating, putting forward a different perspective, you know, and
Stacy Benge (24:00)
Mm-hmm.
Amie Fabry (24:17)
you're really challenging the status quo and the discourse around literacy. You know, you mentioned imposter syndrome. What are some of the things you do that help you navigate those challenges?
Stacy Benge (24:32)
Well, on the imposter syndrome, I always kind go back to my network that I have here of my, I would say my colleagues who I know.
Amie Fabry (24:37)
Mm-hmm.
Stacy Benge (24:41)
are rooted in the same beliefs that I have, which is again, rooted in research and rooted in strong evidence that we have, you know, over half a century of research supporting what it is that we're advocating for. So I find kind of going back to my group of people and us just reminding each other and supporting each other and going, okay, you know, I've got this.
And I do love like after I did a webinar on Saturday and like today I got emails from some of those people saying, thank you so much. And that's always like, you know, nice to hear. So that's something I do to try to kind of deal with that. When talking with people who I know have a different viewpoint or they might just be ignorant to the, and I'm saying that respectfully, they might just be ignorant to the subject that we're talking about.
Stacy Benge (25:35)
I've learned that I have to meet them where they are. And that's always the stuff, okay, where are they in their belief? Where are they for whatever reason? I meet them there and then just start kind of going baby steps. And it's just kind of, you know, I might say like ask a leading question or whatever and see how they respond and just kind of go from there. And every situation is different, but I do find that that's the key, whether it's a parent or a stakeholder, but it's,
Stacy Benge (26:05)
meeting them and going, understand that you're excited about this or I understand that you're concerned about this, but let's talk about this and kind of go from there.
Amie Fabry (26:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's great advice meeting people where they are, because I guess, you know, they might be ignorant in the sense that it hasn't even occurred to them that there's a different way, you know, like to build literacy, or they haven't, they're not, not aware of the things that are not being supported in terms of child development. And I think one of the hard things about literacy in particular is, when we go down the earlier is a better road, and we teach the phonics, and you can actually see
Amie Fabry (26:45)
the child can recognize these sounds and the child can read these words and the child can write some of these words. You have this visible, tangible evidence that learning is happening, right? Whereas when you're developing physical skills and you know, the sounds whilst you can hear a child identify sounds and manipulate sounds in their speech, you don't have that hard know, paper based kind of evidence that we're sometimes looking for. Do you find that's one of the things that challenges maybe some of the teachers or leaders that you're working with?
Stacy Benge (27:21)
I think so And I think that's too, that's where kind of some of the misconception comes for people outside of our field is that it's
Stacy Benge (27:29)
Well, if I can actually see them regurgitating those letters, if I can actually, you know, that must be evidence that they're learning. And so some of the things that I do with the educators in my trainings is I, again, kind of going back to tools that we, you know, for them to talk about, but on the recognizing the letters, and I even have this in my book, but I show fake letters, like they're completely made up letters.
Amie Fabry (27:39)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Stacy Benge (27:58)
And I
say, and I'm like, let's pretend we're doing a group time. And I show it like I'm doing a flash card. And I'm like, we're going to sing a song when the letters is named key, which again, it's a made up letter, but I'm like, we're going to sing songs about this and we're going to glue things on it. And we're going to have snacks that start with this letter, all these things. And I do a couple of letters and then I say, okay, at the end of the session, or even more so at the end of next week or two weeks,
Amie Fabry (28:10)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Stacy Benge (28:27)
Are you going to remember this? And they're like, no. And I'm like, you can memorize it for a small amount of time, but it's not going to resonate. And the reason that is, especially with the letters, is it serves no purpose in your life. And that's one of the talking points I give for not doing letter of the week is we can do all these things, but it doesn't resonate with the child. And they might for a small amount of time be able to regurgitate it.
Amie Fabry (28:41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Stacy Benge (28:55)
but it doesn't mean that actually that we got in depth knowledge. And, you know, I think that kind of helps us say, okay, it on the surface, I call it surface teaching on the surface, it looks like they're learning, but the reality is there's no foundation supporting it. There's, there's not anything, you know, underneath that. And then on handwriting, something that I do in my sessions is I have, I have the participants take their pencil and put it in the hand.
Stacy Benge (29:24)
their non-dominant hand, so the hand they don't write with. And I have them do like a series of, write this statement and write. And what's interesting is everybody always starts laughing at first, because their handwriting, of course, is all over the place. But I will say, okay, we're to do this again. But instead of looking at the inconsistency of your writing, pay attention to how this feels. And I find that's a light bulb moment because everybody goes, I'm holding my pen.
Stacy Benge (29:54)
too tight or too loose or I'm pulling my shoulder. And I say, what happened is I gave you a task that that side of your body is not developed enough to do. And I said, you did it, but you compensated. And I'm like, your body was telling me that you were not able to do it. And I said, this is the same thing that we do to children when we have them doing these tracing letter worksheets.
Amie Fabry (30:06)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Stacy Benge (30:20)
they may do it and it's something that the parents or stakeholders may see, but we need to pay attention to the fact that they're, you know, hooking their hand and pulling up their arm and using their body in a way that's not only not ergonomically correct, but it's showing that their body's not ready for that task. And I do a whole other thing too, where I have people turn around and close an eye and then look up and down on a screen to a statement they're not familiar with that they have to copy and I go.
Stacy Benge (30:46)
This shows how our visual perception and our visual memory tie in. This shows how our vestibular system ties in. And just showing that it's a full body experience. But all that to be said, it kind of gives us those talking points again to go, okay, I know it looks like this child's writing, but let's look at how are they holding that pencil? How are they holding their head? And again, us going back and going, okay, this is not the time and this is why that earlier is better.
Stacy Benge (31:14)
is not beneficial for the children.
Amie Fabry (31:15)
Hmm.
What powerful learning, you know, for educators, I, I love that you're actually helping them to put themselves into a child's shoes, and to, you know, connect with their own bodies and think, this is what it would be like for those children, you know, who are doing things they're not ready for or doing things that they actually don't even understand why they're doing them. You know, and I know
Stacy Benge (31:36)
you
Amie Fabry (31:43)
think something that comes to mind too is a lot of teachers are feeling really stressed, right? And rightly so because there's so much pressure on them to get through all this content and do all the activities and tick all the boxes. And they're crying out and saying there's not enough time. And then you look at how we use our time and what that impact is really having on our children. This is really eye-opening stuff that you're talking about, really.
Stacy Benge (31:49)
And.
Okay.
Amie Fabry (32:11)
what are we actually getting our children to do and why and what's the benefit of that? I love that you're giving these educators that example to really sit in a child's and explore that so deeply. That's really powerful stuff. What difference are you seeing emerges from this kind of professional development that you're offering for teachers? Are they changing their practice? Are they seeing a change in the children? What are some of the impact that this work is having?
Stacy Benge (32:15)
Mm-hmm.
I think mostly, I think it's the conversations that are starting to happen. I think it depends, lot of the changes that take place depend on the type of organization that the educator's working for. So if they are in a public school district, they're a little bit more confined with what they have to do. But I have seen
Stacy Benge (33:05)
you know, some educators who have a little bit more of that confinement go, okay, over here on the side, I'm going to make these changes and maybe show the administrator, okay, this is this scripted, not developmentally appropriate thing happening over here, but over here we have, you know, the play and let me show you. think we're seeing teachers kind of be able to implement that and maybe have some more conversations. I will say that the teachers who do,
Amie Fabry (33:13)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Amazing.
Stacy Benge (33:34)
do start making changes, they usually come back and go, it's so much better. again, I'm not as much into the social and emotional, but when we let children play, we see these behaviors come down and we see, because children wanna be in control. And when they're in control, we don't have as many of the power struggles. Yeah, very much so. But I do feel that
Amie Fabry (33:47)
Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Totally.
Yeah, amazing.
Stacy Benge (34:03)
Again, as I'm planting seeds and kind of hear back, I've known this one girl, this was years ago, but she sat through that training I mentioned earlier, the Do This Not That, Alphabet Knowledge. And three, I think it was three years later, she came back to me and she said, after this amount of time of having conversations with my administrators, this new school year, they're going to let me make these changes. And, you know, and I just thought that was awesome, but it shows that again, sometimes
Amie Fabry (34:29)
Wow.
Stacy Benge (34:33)
You you can't just change everything overnight. But then I also feel like when I talk with teachers too, that they love hearing, like it's almost a sense of relief of going, okay, I don't have to cram so much in. We can take a breath and let children play and just get this abundance of development happening in that same time period that I was trying to cram all these other things in.
Stacy Benge (35:00)
I think most of the time when teachers do make the change and are able to, it's always positive.
Amie Fabry (35:07)
Yeah, amazing. That's so brilliant. And I love that you talked about the fact that it takes time because I think sometimes we can be, know, whichever way we're going in our practice, can, we can kind of want to change things overnight, right? And, you know, want to see results really quickly or even, I guess, if we come back to that conversation about advocacy, and you're an early childhood teacher, and you're feeling really frustrated with what's happening, or what you're being asked to do in your classroom, you know, you can...
Stacy Benge (35:16)
Yeah.
Amie Fabry (35:33)
want your administrators to change really quickly or get on board really quickly. But sometimes it does take time to plant seeds with them, you know, and like that teacher that you mentioned to, you know, three years and now they're kind of getting a change. It's we can give up really easily, I think, and go, well, no one's listening. It's not working. I can't do it. having, you know, I guess the the resilience, I suppose, and the courage to keep planting those seeds and keep challenging and keep asking questions and keep.
Amie Fabry (36:02)
you know, trying things and showing people this is what we're doing and this is what the children are actually developing through their play is really important, right? Like that's how I think we might get long-term change. It's not gonna happen overnight, but we all kind of have that role to play in keeping those conversations happening.
Stacy Benge (36:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Amie Fabry (36:23)
Stacy, have been your greatest learnings about leadership through your journey?
Stacy Benge (36:30)
wow. Not to take things personal. To remember that the work is not about me, it's about the message and just kind of keeping things, I always call it discernment, just kind of always imagine I have a hand, my hand in front of my heart and to make sure that I'm not letting things hit my heart and...
Amie Fabry (36:35)
Mm-hmm, yep.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Stacy Benge (36:57)
Sometimes
I need to put it to my brain because sometimes there's feedback I do need to be hearing. But just knowing that, you know, things are not personal and if changes are not maybe happening or I don't find people are, you know, quite listening to the message, it's not personal again. Like I mentioned earlier, people hear what they want to hear when they want to hear it. but I think that's, that's probably one of my, biggest challenges. And then I think just,
Amie Fabry (37:02)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Stacy Benge (37:27)
And again, I think this might be kind of how we are in the States, but being seen as knowing my stuff and the new sectors that are taking in pre-K. so, because since I'm not a certified teacher, however, I have a master's degree in child development. So this is my expertise. So I have kind of found breaking some of those walls down has been a little bit difficult as well.
Amie Fabry (37:39)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Do you have any advice that you would give to educators, leaders, you know, no matter where they're working, whether they're, you know, trying to advocate in their own school or context or whether they're, you know, wanting to step into consulting or something like you're doing. Do you have any advice for them?
Stacy Benge (38:18)
Well, I think again, like for the teachers in the school, be confident, just continue to learn. I always say, I mean, I've been studying child development for 30 years and I'm still learning. just that continuing to seek knowledge and just be confident and convicted in the message that you're sharing. And I think that's very important too. And so if somebody is wanting to go into consulting or presenting or doing professional development,
Amie Fabry (38:26)
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Stacy Benge (38:47)
Take the path of what you're passionate about. I think sometimes trainers get into this. Okay, I can talk anything, you know More from my message to whatever is what you're wanting to hear but I think you need to First of all, it brings you joy. What do you like learning about? But what are you passionate about and what difference can you make?
Amie Fabry (38:56)
Beautiful. That's wonderful advice. So much wisdom in this conversation. It's been such a joy to talk to you, Stacy, today and learn about your journey. The role of advocacy is just so critical in the early years, particularly around literacy, but even across the board. And I think, you know, I've learned so much from you. I love the message around really listening to people where they're at, not taking things personally, you know, is so true.
Stacy Benge (39:21)
Thank you.
Amie Fabry (39:40)
But even having that, you know, a network of people that you can come back to and go, yes, it is okay. I am doing the right thing because it is hard. And I think for most of us, you know, as leaders, we don't like to upset people. We don't really want to, you know, have that confrontation or that negative response, which sometimes we get. So really being able to protect ourselves in that process is so important. I've learned so much from you today.
Stacy Benge (39:53)
Mm-hmm.
Amie Fabry (40:05)
Thank you so much for your time. It's been an absolute joy and keep going. You are making such a difference and I really look forward to following your journey.
Stacy Benge (40:05)
Thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
