S2E9 - Carry Hansell: Reclaiming the Human in Education
What if burnout isn’t personal failure—but a signal that the system needs to evolve?
How might our schools and workplaces transform if we centred emotional awareness and regulation in professional practice?
📘 Episode Summary
In this powerful and deeply human conversation, host Amie Fabry is joined by Carry Hansell, educator and lead health practitioner at Atriba Collective. Carry shares her personal journey from classroom burnout to becoming a passionate advocate for educator wellbeing. Together, they explore how our emotional, mental, and physical states directly impact the way we lead, teach, and connect with others.
From the myth of “leaving it at the door” to the transformative power of self-awareness and nervous system regulation, this episode invites listeners to consider a more grounded, heart-centred way of working. Carry offers practical insights on how we can reclaim agency in our lives, lead with authenticity, and shift from burnout to balance—both personally and professionally.
Whether you’re an educator, leader, parent, or advocate for change, this episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to reimagine wellbeing at the centre of educational practice.
About Carry Hansell
Carry-Louise Hansell is the founder and lead practitioner of Atriba Collective (formerly Atriba Holistic Health) and a dedicated advocate for the mental, emotional, and physical wellbeing of educators in primary and early years settings.
With a solid foundation built from her 7 years as a classroom teacher and 8+ years as a Holistic health practitioner, Wellbeing specialist and Mindset coach, Carry brings a deep understanding of both the demands of the education sector and the science of wellbeing. She now works with schools & Early Year’s settings across Australia, the UK, and the USA, as well as private clients worldwide, equipping educators with the tools and support they need to navigate the daily pressures of teaching with more resilience, clarity, and calm and to become powerful leaders both personally and professionally.
Her work integrates evidence-based mindset techniques, neuroscience principles, and holistic healing modalities such as nervous system regulation, EFT, meditation, energy psychology, and mindfulness practices. Carry is also trained in NLP, hypnotherapy, talk therapy, and shadow work, combining these approaches to address the 'four-body system'—mental, emotional, physical, and energetic—for lasting transformation.
Having personally experienced the burnout, overwhelm, and emotional toll of teaching, Carry is passionate about creating spaces and resources where educators feel seen, supported, and empowered. Her signature ‘Wellness for Educators program’ is a culmination of everything she wished she had access to as a teacher, real, practical, and powerful tools to manage stress, improve wellbeing, and reconnect with a sense of purpose both inside and outside of the Classroom.
Carry’s mission is simple yet profound: to help educators return to themselves—grounded, empowered, and thriving both personally and professionally.
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[Transcript]
Amie Fabry (00:07)
Hello friends and welcome back to Leading the Early Years for the Future. I am your host, Amy Fabry, and today I am so excited to be speaking with Carrie Hansel, who is an educator and lead health practitioner at Atriba Collective. Carrie is a dedicated advocate for the mental, emotional and physical wellbeing of educators in primary and early childhood settings. What an amazing role you have, Carrie. I'm so delighted to be speaking with you today. Thanks for joining me.
Carry (00:35)
Thank you so much for having me.
Amie Fabry (00:37)
The first question I always ask is, do you have a hidden talent or something that might light you up or bring you joy outside of your day-to-day work?
Carry (00:48)
That's an interesting question. There's so many things that bring me joy. I'm a big believer in looking for joy rather than waiting for it to be presented to you. So something that brings me joy is local adventures, know, local new coffee shops, new bakeries, and going to the beach, just exploring the local area and really discovering those hidden gems.
Amie Fabry (01:11)
That's beautiful. So beautiful. And I totally relate on finding the joy. I love like just finding pauses in my day and noticing what's around me. And some days I do this really well and some days I really don't do it well at all. ⁓ But you know, like they talk about the glimmers and it could be just a little moment. It might just be the way the sun kind of reflects through the trees or something. But looking for those little moments that bring us joy too is...
Carry (01:24)
you
Amie Fabry (01:36)
Yeah, I really, really relate to finding the joy and not just hoping it's going to turn up, right?
Carry (01:41)
100 % I think being self-responsible for our happiness and our joy and our well-being. It really does just yield amazing results rather than waiting for life to just present us with something to respond to to be happy about. So yeah, I feel you on the glimmers.
Amie Fabry (01:56)
Hmm.
Hmm. Absolutely. Now, Carrie, you've had a really interesting journey. Started out as an educator, you now work as a health practitioner and you describe your mission as helping educators return to themselves so they're grounded, empowered and thriving both personally and professionally. Can you tell me about the work that you do?
Carry (02:21)
Absolutely. So my work has spanned across so many areas and some of my main roles are a mindset coach and a wellbeing specialist for educators, but just for humans in general. And my work is all about helping people to come back to being powerful leaders, both personally and professionally. I do believe that to be the most powerful and authentic and influential leader that we can be.
It really is linked to how we are doing in all areas of our life. It's a holistic approach. I think I found personally when I was an educator, a primary school teacher, kindergarten teacher, one of the things that really impacted my leadership was when things were unsettled in my personal life. It didn't matter how much I loved my job or how much I wanted to show up. If I didn't have the tools to kind of regulate and
organize my thoughts and feelings and my humanness of things that were just going on in life. It affected my work. It affected who I was as a colleague, who I was as a leader, a teacher. So my work now really focuses on how can we support the human to be emotionally, physically, mentally and energetically balanced and self-empowered and equipped to know themselves so they can lead. I also believe that
when we feel good, when we are tapped into the most truest version of ourselves, we shine that out into the world. We are then heart-centered. When we're stressed, we're up in our mind. And when we're in our mind, we're in fear response, we're in ego. We are in survival. And it's very limited to what we can create there and how much we can love and care and be kind. So my work really focuses on those foundations of
Amie Fabry (03:48)
you
Carry (04:06)
The more you know yourself and the more that you can manage the humaneness, the more that can pour into leadership in whatever area of life that you're leading in.
Amie Fabry (04:10)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm. So interesting. So interesting. I love this and I really want to unpack it a bit further with you. You know, I think what comes to mind for me and I often talk to educators and leaders about the fact that we're whole human beings and we have really profoundly important roles, I think in our communities, in the lives of young children and young people.
But even in the lives of families and in our school or our service communities, you know, we're working with educators, we're working with other leaders, we're working with families and children who are all very dynamic. We as human beings are dynamic. And I think it's so easy to forget that behind the professional is a living, thinking, feeling human being. And it is...
can be really hard. know, like I know when I was first, you know, training to become a teacher and in practice, there was kind of this mantra of leave the person at the door, and then just take on this role, like don't bring your full self to work kind of thing. And I wonder how that's going for us, you know, like you're talking about when we're not really being ourselves, and we're not taking a holistic approach, it can impact us. you, can you
that a little bit more for us? What are the benefits when we actually pay attention to what's going on for us as a whole human being and what might be some of the, you know, things to be mindful of if we're not doing that?
Carry (05:30)
Absolutely.
Well, I think that sums it up perfectly that for such a long time, we've been taught to leave your problems at the door, you know, be professional. And it's almost like wearing a mask. If you're familiar with the psychologist, Carl Jung, he talks about how we become conditioned to wear these different kinds of masks, whether that's the professional, the people pleaser, the strong person, the whatever it might be, the joker, the...
Amie Fabry (05:52)
Hmm.
Carry (06:08)
the easygoing person, it doesn't mean that we don't have these qualities. It becomes a mask when we wear it or when we take on that role, when we truly don't want to or don't have the capability to do so. And this is what we're finding in education, especially amongst our educators, that you hold anything long enough, it becomes so heavy, it starts to weigh on the body and eventually the body will deteriorate.
Amie Fabry (06:21)
Hmm.
Carry (06:32)
and the mind will deteriorate. So we're doing that to ourselves with internal pressures and stresses. And then we're wondering why, you know, we're having so many educators leave the profession, why children are now more reactive than ever, because we're not looking again at the holistic beings of children are connected to adult nervous systems. They do regulate with a grounded adult. And if they don't feel that sense of
Amie Fabry (06:54)
Hmm.
Carry (06:59)
safety, not from a, you know, the safety as we know it is, you know, there's not knives everywhere or there's not a major threat, but energetically, they're looking for somebody that's like, are they grounded? They are safe. I'm okay. And because we're so burnt out as adults, we're not able to regulate for ourselves or anybody else. And this is causing so many knock on effects. And we've got to also remember that it's such an important role that we are
Amie Fabry (07:00)
Hmm.
Carry (07:25)
nurturing the future generation as leaders. So when we don't look at it holistically, we're missing a big part and it almost feels like we're just digging the hole deeper and deeper and wondering why we're not seeing any daylight with it.
Amie Fabry (07:38)
Yeah, wow. It's so profound, isn't it? know, and if I think about some of the conversations I've had with educators and leaders in a whole range of roles, know, in services, in schools, but even beyond, sometimes the feeling stuff is described as the fluffy stuff, you know, or the nice to have stuff.
Carry (07:58)
Mmm.
Amie Fabry (07:59)
And I think, you know, I guess even I can relate from my own personal journey. The more we actually pay attention to that, the more it's helping us to be, you know, regulated human beings who can make good decisions, but to also be there for the people around us and to support them. And, you know, you make a very good point that as educators and leaders working directly with children, we have a role to nurture their development and their learning and
Carry (08:10)
⁓
Amie Fabry (08:25)
help them to co-regulate and learn to regulate their own emotions, you know, to be happy, thriving people, not just ticking boxes in terms of a professional role. My question to you is kind of, if we're kind of caught in these cycles of just getting on with the work and ignoring the person and the feelings and whatever else might be going on for us, how might we know
Carry (08:33)
⁓
Amie Fabry (08:50)
we're not regulated or how might we know that, you know, we need to do a little bit of unpacking or think about what might be going on for us in our personal lives or our emotions and how we're actually feeling. how does an educator start to tap into that and notice that and bring it the kind of awareness that perhaps it might need?
Carry (09:09)
I think the most obvious sign of severe dysregulation is burnout. And again, we see that across the profession. And when I was in education as an educator, I experienced burnout, which has led me to this work. But that's the almost the tip of the iceberg. We don't want to get to burnout and I need to leave the profession. I need to just like be in a different job, which is what we're seeing, unfortunately. We want to be looking at what's the earlier signs.
Amie Fabry (09:15)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Carry (09:36)
And those
are like to notice in yourself, it's, you know, where are we irritated more times than not? Where are we snapping? Where are we not sleeping properly? Where are we fueled on caffeine? I remember when I was teaching, you know, first thing in the morning, I'd be in the staff room and I'd be on the nest cafe with a couple of spoonfuls and, you know, then it gets to break time and we know what it's like in schools and...
early as education settings, it's always someone's birthday or a celebration. So there's always cake, there's always chocolate. And you're so exhausted, or at least I was so exhausted that I was like, okay, I'll have the sugar, then I'll have another coffee, which is all in moderation, fine. But when you've already got a dysregulated nervous system, it's like pouring fuel on the fire. So noticing, where do you feel unwell? Again, you know, the body...
Amie Fabry (10:09)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (10:26)
is always talking to us, the body's never against us, it's always giving us signals and signs. So if you're run down all the time, if you're picking up, you know, bugs and things all of the time, these are things that have been normalized in the profession that, well, if you work with children, it's just, you're just gonna be exhausted, you're just gonna be sick. But we're not looking at why and does it have to be that way? And I think we're in a time now in society where
Amie Fabry (10:44)
Mm.
Carry (10:52)
The old doesn't fit anymore, the new hasn't yet been established. And I think after the pandemic, that really shook a lot of things up, especially for our educators that were on the front line and showing up and trying to hold space for their colleagues, their families, children, while there was such sheer uncertainty in the world, which again, isn't talked about of humans don't handle uncertainty very well and prolonged uncertainty will naturally.
Amie Fabry (11:15)
Hmm.
Carry (11:18)
dysregulate your nervous system will naturally put you in a state of fear, worry and stress. And when we're in that state of fear, worry and stress, we can't be our best self. It's impossible because the body's biology is geared up for survival then. So your compassion levels go down, your empathy levels go down, your patience goes down. And then when they go down, fingers appointed, there's judgment, we go into victim mode. And it becomes this whole soup of just
Amie Fabry (11:23)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (11:45)
chaos sometimes in the workplace and then we're wondering, you know, why does nobody want to be there or why is it so difficult? And this is also not to take away from all of the amazing things that are going on in education and all of the, you know, the hard work and the most valuable work that goes into it. But this conversation is about what maybe isn't working and why and how can we lead in a new way to evolve with an ever-changing world?
Amie Fabry (11:56)
Yeah.
Great points. And I think, you know, that uncertainty piece, you know, like we're just seeing more and more uncertainty when we actually stop and think about what's going on. And I think so many people that you talk to and, know, whether they're educators or leaders and even beyond education and early childhood, there is a lot of uncertainty and a lot of people are just feeling these rising levels of stress.
and we just keep going, you know, I think often because of the stress. So it becomes a bit of a vicious cycle. You know, you don't have to go far to see the impact in how that is influencing the way that we show up in societies, in communities, you know, the pushing in, the road rage, you know, the nastiness online, like we just see it everywhere and...
it can kind of creep up on us and shapes the way that we're showing up, the way we're engaging with people around us. And we don't always know what it is, but I think, you know, I'm listening to you and thinking there is so much stress going on and, you know, largely because of all the uncertainty in the world that is creeping up and impacting the way that we see our jobs then, the roles we bring, you know, particularly to education, the burnout rates are so high.
Carry (13:12)
Mm.
Amie Fabry (13:26)
And so I love that you're talking about how do we stop before we get to that kind of breaking point? What do we need to be noticing in our bodies so that we can start to become aware of what might be going on so that we can start to, I guess, be a bit more proactive in looking after ourselves.
Carry (13:33)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm, definitely. think it all begins with self-awareness, I would say. I think when we choose to stop, and I know that it can feel like there's no space to stop, but it has to be a decision. Once we make a decision that we want something different, life tends to meet us there, but it does take that level of self-responsibility. And for me personally,
Amie Fabry (13:51)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (14:10)
I was stuck in a place of victimhood without realizing I was in victimhood. didn't, you know, actively go, I'm a victim of my life. Actually, you would have met me at that time and thought, she's, you know, really positive. But internally, I felt stuck and frustrated. And it's because I didn't really take the time to know myself. And I think it's so interesting how...
Amie Fabry (14:15)
you
Hmm.
Carry (14:32)
most people on this planet know more about what their iPhone does than what their brain and their body does. Like we don't, we know all about the apps and things like that, but we don't actually know, you know, what about our, and I, this is where I went on a deep dive into personal development and ended up where I am now doing the work that I do. I thought, no, I know, don't know anything about my brain or like why I think the way that I think, or who is that negative voice that tells me I'm not good enough and that.
Amie Fabry (14:40)
Yeah, well...
Mm-hmm.
Carry (15:00)
and things will never change. Is that actually me? Is that actually true? And when I took a moment to think about that, I was like, okay, this is interesting. And being from a background where nobody talked about anything like that, it was very much leave your problems at the door and, you know, don't cry and get on with things. So when I started to think about this, I was then met by life of going, okay, he, you know,
Amie Fabry (15:05)
Hmm.
Carry (15:26)
I would be gifted a book or I come across a podcast and now more than ever, we've got so many resources to support this if we're looking for it, of free things that we can listen to on our breaks at work and you know, on the bus home or whatever it might be. So I'm not going to say that change is easy because it's not, but we do have to be willing to take that level of self responsibility and go, you know what? I don't want to be a victim of my life anymore.
Amie Fabry (15:32)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Mm.
Hmm.
Carry (15:51)
complaining
isn't working for me, it's not getting me there, and not also going into blame or judgment because that doesn't help either. It's just going, we need new ways and I'm gonna start looking around. It's not necessarily gonna be presented immediately, but if we start looking around, then that's where things start to change. We hear something new and then we learn. So I learned that...
Amie Fabry (15:59)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (16:15)
you can actually reprogram your belief system. And I was like, this is wild. Like, why are we not getting taught this in school? Why do I know Pythagoras, but I don't know how to do my taxes. And I know nothing about my nervous system. I don't know about you, but I've not used a compass or Pythagoras in my adult life. So which is a whole other conversation of, know, where I would love to see education go in the future as nurturing that holistic
Amie Fabry (16:32)
Absolutely.
Hmm.
Carry (16:42)
being a holistic version of us of, I'd love to see personal development become a staple in training to be a teacher. I'd love to see it further back in high school, know, learning about stress, nervous system regulation, why we feel anxious, addictions, why beliefs form our reality. I'd love to see it even further back in...
Amie Fabry (16:55)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (17:06)
which we are seeing a little bit more of, but in primary and early years education, I'd love to see regulated educators teaching children to regulate on a level that's good for their development and their brain and language that's suitable. Because if we start here, we're able to lay new foundations where at the moment it's kind of like, we're just kind of pouring a little cup of water over a blazing fire, just going, okay, well, if we just, the staff is stressed, let's order some pizzas.
Amie Fabry (17:13)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Carry (17:33)
and give them a voucher, which is nice. Don't get me wrong. I think it's so important to value our staff, but it's not going to do anything. So can we continue to do the nice gestures, but can we also get to the root cause of things? And again, it's not going to happen overnight. This is going to be a monumental change in history as we try to reinvent the education system to meet the needs of not only the children.
Amie Fabry (17:33)
Yeah, exactly.
Hmm.
Mmm.
Carry (18:01)
the parents,
know, everybody, all the humans, us, ourselves, everybody that's a leader. And I think this is such a vast conversation that we're just not going to be able to even, you know, scratch the surface on in the time we've got together because it goes in so many directions. But it is a very valuable conversation around how can we begin to think different? How can we begin to just take a pause and to
Amie Fabry (18:16)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Carry (18:25)
see self-responsibility is a good thing and to know like how amazing to know that you can change if you want. You can change anything you want in your life if you want to but it does start with deciding and I think the most challenging thing about creating positive change in your life or your workplace is compassionately owning our part in it of going well where am I fueling this? Where am I complaining a lot or where...
Amie Fabry (18:28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carry (18:51)
not helping myself, can I forgive myself and move in a different direction? Or should I just bury my head and stay where I am? And again, it's always a choice. And that's said with so much love because I've to make that choice time and time again in my life. And I still do. We all fall into that space of life is hard and nobody's helping me and I can't change. think I fell into it like three days ago, but yeah, I've got to go.
Amie Fabry (19:02)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Carry (19:16)
You know what? Like, I can stay there. Nobody's gonna say I can't, but do I want to? And is it serving me?
Amie Fabry (19:24)
Wow, that is so powerful. My gosh, there is a lot to unpack. What you've just been saying really resonates with me on so many levels. think, you know, part of my journey has been learning to the power of choice. You know, whether it's a choice about where I work, whether it's a choice about boundaries, whether it's a choice about what I say yes and no to and
I'm still very much learning, you know, how to not fall into victimhood and how to actually, I guess, be the driver of my own life. And that is ongoing work. But I love that you're talking about, you know, wouldn't it be amazing if this is what we were actually helping our young people and children to do, you know? And I think quite a lot about, you know, as an adult now,
And when I think about my friends and I think about the people that I walk alongside as professionals, you know, where I think we're all kind of grappling with some of these big things, you know, how do we regulate? How do we look after ourselves? How do we notice when we're caught up in these vicious cycles of, you know, being on the hamster wheel or, you know, falling into victimhood or succumbing to the competition that exists in our, our schools, our services, our communities.
Carry (20:39)
Mmm.
Amie Fabry (20:40)
How do we notice what's going on and what's causing us to feel the way we feel so that we can kind of stop? And then I think our school systems often still, you know, are probably a bit outdated, let's say, you know, in a lot of these kind of circumstances that we would have gone through as young people that don't always help us.
You know, like the competition, for example, imagine if that was replaced with, you know, here's some breathing techniques for when you're feeling dysregulated. Imagine the difference we could make for those young people and children before they get to adulthood. And, you know, they are facing burnout and like we are, you know, and how do we kind of manage all of those things? I think that is really profound shift, you know, that we are seeing. And like you mentioned, there are lots more
Carry (21:07)
Mmm.
Amie Fabry (21:27)
not only conversations about feelings and emotions, mental health, wellbeing, but also resources and people like yourself who are actually leading this work and really supporting people to take charge of their lives and to notice what they need to notice and to be more in tune with their bodies and to build their own skill sets so that they can regulate better. It's a really exciting shift, I think, and really
Carry (21:48)
you
Amie Fabry (21:54)
wonderful to hear these conversations happening. It would be amazing though if they kind of extended down into our school system, right? Rather than a, you know, how do we kind of reward the kids for working hard, but how do we actually build their skill sets so they don't fall into the stress zone? Or like you're saying with educators, you know, yes, we can provide pizza, but it's only a band-aid solution, isn't it? When
actually, it's the way we're working that's not working for us. And so trying to get to that root cause is the hard stuff to do. And it takes, I think, a lot of courage and honesty and vulnerability to kind of admit that this isn't working for me. Because I think, you know, we still have a bit of a hangover around admitting that this isn't working or I'm not feeling good about this, which can still kind of
feel like a failure or I'm not tough enough or I'm not strong enough? Is that kind of something that you come up against in the work that you're doing?
Carry (22:49)
100%, I think it's human nature to want to be valued and to be accepted. You know, it goes back to ancestral and tribal instincts that if you weren't accepted as part of the tribe, it literally did threaten your survival. And it's in our cellular memory, you know, as again, this is about knowing our biology, that we're a lot more than just flesh and bones. It goes really deep with our cellular memory.
Amie Fabry (22:55)
Hmm.
you
Carry (23:15)
So we do see this and we've got to acknowledge that that's our default setting. But like our phones that need a software update pretty regular, so do we. Like our brains need a software update. And one of the ways to do that or to begin doing that in the workplace is through conversation. Because when we have conversation without the mask, and when I say without the mask, it's without that.
Amie Fabry (23:27)
Hmm.
Carry (23:38)
professional edge that we believe that we need in certain roles such as education and corporate. I've noticed that when I've either worked in those roles myself or I've supported people in those roles, we tend to not be our true selves. There's not a true level of authenticity. It doesn't mean to that we're not good people, but who we are at work is not the same as who we are with our friends.
Amie Fabry (24:02)
Mm.
Carry (24:02)
And I'm
not saying that we should be in all ways, but why not? can't we be, why can't professionality be almost remodeled as well? Because then we're not wearing a mask. It's, I'm not saying go to work and be like, I'm having such a hard time. I'm have a breakdown and I don't know what to do. But if somebody asks you, you know, how are you doing? It's like, can we have a level of honesty with again, the key principle of self responsibility.
We've got to be responsible to not spill over onto other people and hold ourselves. But that balance of vulnerability, of realness and connection. I know that when I've had conversations where people have said, you know, I've just been really struggling with anxiety and I'm finding that my focus is off. And then you go, me too. And it gives us permission. And then that's a doorway to solution. If we're all feeling it and we're all talking about it.
Amie Fabry (24:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (24:53)
And a really powerful question I like to use for myself, for my clients in this work is, is this the version of myself that I want to be? So when I found myself stressed and burnt out, I saw myself snapping at the people closest to me. I found myself zoning out in the classroom and found myself more judgmental of colleagues, all because I was in survival and my nervous system was activated.
Amie Fabry (25:01)
Hmm.
Carry (25:17)
And I'd go home and I'd just be a shadow of my former self. And I remember asking myself the question of like, is this who I want to be? Is this who I truly am? And I knew it wasn't. So that was, I didn't have the answers any further. I didn't know what I was going to do about it or how I could move forward. But again, life met me there. That was a powerful question. And then when I started, you know, being a bit more authentic and vulnerable, which is scary.
Amie Fabry (25:37)
Hmm.
Carry (25:43)
and leaning into these conversations, I was met with people that were willing to meet me there, and not everybody will, and that's okay. But it's that saying of, your people can't find you if you're like hiding yourself, and we need our tribes. And if you think about how much time we spend at work, what is it? Like, it's got to be 70 % of our week, our life. So...
Amie Fabry (25:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Hmm.
Carry (26:07)
why not have harmonious relationships? And that was something that I came up against when I was teaching, you know, there was clashes between colleagues, there was a lot of gossip in the workplace environment, which deteriorates mental health and wellbeing. But if we look deeper, why are we gossiping and judging? It's because it's an insecurity that's within us. And again, that comes back to personal development. Why are we the way that we are? If we can start to question ourselves, eventually, it's like,
Amie Fabry (26:21)
Yeah.
Carry (26:35)
You may have seen, I've seen on social media this where somebody has soil in a glass and they pour water into the glass and then the soil starts to disperse and eventually you pour enough water into the glass that there's no more soil, it's flooded it out and that's kind of the same as us as humans. The soil is all the conditioning that we've picked up through our lives, through our own trauma, through our own experiences, our own insecurities and that's what we're operating from.
Amie Fabry (26:50)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (27:02)
But when we
kind of pour in conversation, vulnerability, self-responsibility, awareness, choice to make different decisions, that soil dilutes and then we become these clear vessels for authentic leadership, for love, for connection. And for me personally, I don't think there's anything more valuable and powerful than teaching that as the foundational things to our children that you can be loving, you are safe.
Amie Fabry (27:16)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Carry (27:31)
And everything after that, I think, is just natural progression. We can learn pencil control. We can learn Pythagoras if they want to keep that in the curriculum, whatever. We can learn all that. But we can't really truly learn if we're not regulated, connected, and feeling safe in who we are as people, no matter what age we are.
Amie Fabry (27:34)
Hmm.
Hmm. Hmm.
Hmm. So true. As you're talking, it reminds me of permission to feel the book by Mark Brackett, you know, and acknowledging that we actually have to give ourselves permission to feel what we feel. Right. And you know, you're talking about being vulnerable in sharing that not oversharing, but sharing enough. And I'm kind of thinking, you know, as you were talking, imagine if we
were brave enough to be a bit more human at work and we could connect over those really raw and sometimes difficult feelings and emotions like anxiety, feeling overwhelmed, being able to say, actually, I'm having a hard time with this or I feel like I'm not good enough. But imagine if we had those conversations, those hard conversations, but real conversations and we could really connect with people.
human to human, instead of trying to connect over the gossip that makes us feel good, but we think feels good, but it doesn't actually. ⁓ You know, we could create really different cultures in our services and in our schools. And that does have that flow and effect to our children. Carrie, I'd love to hear more about your story. You've kind of alluded to it. And you know, you've mentioned that you, you also experienced burnout, which is sort of how you ended up into this work. Can you tell us a bit about
Carry (28:38)
you
Mmm.
Amie Fabry (29:03)
What was that journey for you? Not necessarily the burnout part, but how did you go from being a burnt out educator to now doing this incredible work that you're doing?
Carry (29:13)
I think for, you know, I don't want to speak too broadly, but I'd say for the majority of us that have a desire to help in a helping profession, whether it's education or otherwise, we do have that natural desire to care, to help, to support. And that's how I found myself in teaching, you know, I wasn't sure like most of us, I think, you know, again, when we talk about the education system, I didn't feel ready to know what I wanted to do for the rest of my life at 17.
You know, you've got this huge question. I'm like, I don't know. Like, what do you mean? What do I want to do as a profession? So I think that's a whole other conversation in itself. But my nan, who's been a huge influence in my life, was like, why don't you be a teacher? You know, you're pretty good with kids and I think you'd be good at that. And I was like, all right. And that was literally how I got into education. And, know, I loved my time as a teacher. I think children bring so much.
joy and also humor, which is I think is another huge part of well-being. The amount of times I've cracked up laughing at little ones with the things that they've said and done, like that's a highlight of my teaching career. So I really enjoyed that, but I must admit the impact of the burnout and just the things that aren't working in education really hindered why I was there for. I really wanted to be there, to be with the children, to...
nurture their development, to do creative things and for it to be an enjoyable experience, which it was a lot of the time, but the ticking boxes, jumping through hoops curriculum wise, the assessments, especially when I taught primary, like marking 180 books a day, because I taught five lessons and had 29 children in the classroom. I remember hiding them in the boot of my car and just being like, if I can just get to the weekend and get these books marked. So then I'm working Saturday, Sunday and
It was just getting too much. I was losing the sense of who I was. And like I said earlier, I started asking questions being like, you know, what is this and do I want to be this kind of person? And always had an interest in human behaviour. So I was very curious about people and like, why do they do that? Or why do we say that? And that led me into a journey of discovery. On the weekends, I was just binging.
podcasts on personal development and going to seminars and reading books and, you know, even delving into spirituality. You know, I heard about manifestation and I was like, what is that? And it felt like very interesting. It was all very new things. And this goes back to what we were saying earlier of having that curiosity of just going, this is new and exploring it and not everything's going to be for you.
but you'll find things that light you up and life is a bit like that. Life gives you breadcrumbs to just kind of follow the next one and explore who you are. And I'm a big believer that we are here to have a human experience and to really live from our hearts and our souls and to do work that lights us up. And we've got to figure that out of what that is. It might be education and also it might not be. And I think that's a valuable conversation to have as we will see the restructure of education.
Amie Fabry (32:07)
Hmm.
Carry (32:11)
If you've ended up there and it's not for you, that's okay. That's not a failure. It's about finding out what you can do and what you want to do. So then somebody that does want to be in that space is well suited. So yeah, I mean, I could talk for hours about, you know, holistic health, personal development, but eventually it led me to a place where it became very natural for me to understand humans and human behavior and bringing in those skills from
Amie Fabry (32:17)
Hmm.
Carry (32:38)
teaching of I want to help, I want you to feel empowered, I want you to feel supported, I want you to feel seen and developing skills that helped to do that. So training in things like hypnotherapy, NLP, studying human behavior that led me to start a business and to, again, I didn't know what I was doing in the beginning. It's about that taking, taking leaps and being okay about being uncomfortable because I'm aware that life is short.
Amie Fabry (32:59)
Thank
you
Carry (33:06)
and I wanna make the most of it. And we're given reminders, you know, for me, my mum passed away about five years ago now, and as harrowing as that was and how it blew my life apart, now the grief is subsiding. It's that fuel of like, I can stay in grief or I can be like, wow, you just never know. Like, how can I live from my heart? How can I create a life that I'm excited to be in? And that's what I do now.
Amie Fabry (33:27)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (33:35)
predominantly that was with one-on-one clients. And then it moved into education because it made sense to move into education with my background. So I created the Wellness for Educators program, which is pretty much everything we've been talking about and everything that I needed as a teacher. Nervous system regulation, knowing yourself, elements of personal development, identity, everything that I wish I had as a toolbox in teaching to really pioneer this.
Amie Fabry (33:43)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Carry (34:01)
conversation of a new way of doing things. I put into a programme and hopefully, you know, it'll reach the right people and I'll continue to do so to have these kinds of conversations to provide spaces and resources for people to feel seen and supported and for those that are ready as well because this conversation won't be for everybody but there'll be people that are like, my goodness, that is me, I'm ready for change, like sign me up and that's okay and I think that's also applicable.
Amie Fabry (34:22)
Hmm.
Carry (34:29)
to the workplace, it's okay if not everybody resonates with you. It's okay if not everybody likes you. Don't take it too personal. Just find the people that do and find the things that you do love. And it's that shift in perspective, that mindset shift. I sometimes find myself focusing all the things that aren't working and I don't have, and then we're just gonna see more of it. So how can we shift that perspective of what is working? it sounds very cliche, but what am I grateful for? Because
Amie Fabry (34:37)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Carry (34:56)
These are the things that also reprogram the brain. The more that we focus on something, the more that we see it. You may have seen this example yourself. I don't know if you're ever gonna buy like a new car, like a white car, or are you gonna get a breed of dog? And you start seeing them everywhere. You're like, how come so many people have got white cars now? And it's not that, you know, just since you decided you're getting a white car that the manufacturers have just shipped another million onto the streets. What's actually happening there from a neuroscience perspective is,
Amie Fabry (35:00)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Carry (35:25)
what's called the reticular activation system, which is a part of the brain that's responsible for scanning your environment. And when you consciously pop something in your awareness, like, I want to buy a new white car or a purple dress, your brain will start picking that up more than anything else. So what a wonderful program, which is way stronger than any app we can download on our smartphone. Imagine if we started using that in life and education to go, okay, what's our intention?
Amie Fabry (35:42)
Mmm.
Carry (35:52)
for the classroom today, what's our focus for the curriculum, what's our focus for personal, having conversations and staff meetings of not just what's our focus for, you know, the term, but what's your focus for you and your health, what's your focus in your personal life, and allowing ourselves to be full holistic beings without having to leave part of ourselves at the door anywhere.
Amie Fabry (35:54)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Oh, I love that. That's really powerful, isn't it? And, you know, so empowering to think, you know, like this one strategy where you can kind of reclaim some, I guess, power over your life and really focus on what's important versus just, I guess, falling into the reactive place of these are all the things happening to me.
I love that. And I love your story, you know, that it comes from personal experience. And this is something that not only you're intrigued by, but you've lived through and you've turned it into, you know, a business where you can now support other educators who will then hopefully not fall into the burnout zone, but can actually be more aware and in tune with what's going on for them.
to have these really meaningful, powerful conversations and build these skill sets. The program you've developed sounds amazing. Thank you for the work that you do, Carrie. This is really, really incredible. And, you know, I think right across education, whether it's early childhood schools, high school, tertiary, I think these are really powerful conversations and support that we need as educators, but then also to not just bring to our work.
as educators, but as leaders in how we are influencing, you know, the culture and the learning environments for us as educators, but then also for our children. It's really profound. I'd love to know in your journey as a leader doing this work, and you know, I know you've been at this for a while now and these conversations are still like they're...
know, kind of ramping up, which is great, but it's still really new terrain for a lot of people. Have you faced any challenges doing this work and, you know, stepping into a new, I guess a new area of expertise and work, putting yourself out there to, you know, have a go at doing something different and trying to make a difference?
Carry (37:53)
Mm.
Yeah, absolutely. think there's so many challenges and I think that's something that we could do with talking about a little bit more. You know, I think we can all get caught up in social media of seeing the shininess of people's lives and how easy it is for other people and like it's just so far from reality. So yeah, I think because it's not, know, air quotes and mainstream topic, it is more than ever. We know we're talking about mindfulness a lot more. We hear that word a lot now.
Amie Fabry (38:22)
You
Carry (38:36)
But, you know, 10 years ago we didn't. Meditation was like for monks on the top of a hill somewhere that wear orange gowns. Like it wasn't for, again, air quotes, normal people. So I think with anything new, there's going to be a pushback and that's okay. And you'll notice a theme here as I talk about all of these things and my work that...
Amie Fabry (38:37)
Mm.
Carry (39:00)
Something I've had to really embody is self-responsibility of just going, well, I've got to be responsible for myself to be able to hold any criticism that comes my way and stand by my values. I think knowing your values. And again, that reminder that life is short. When you get to the end of your life, you're not going to be like, I'm so glad that I played small and people didn't really call me out or I just kept quiet. You're going to be like,
Amie Fabry (39:27)
Hmm.
Carry (39:28)
at the end of your life, you're going to be like, I'm so glad that I followed my heart and I took chances that I wanted to take. And I use that as a reminder for myself because like everybody else, I'm human, know, this fears of being seen and getting it wrong. And, you know, especially when it's more intangible stuff, when we talk about mindset, it's like we don't, we don't see the insides of our brains. We don't want to talk about it. So these conversations, they are new. But I also look at it from the lens of
Amie Fabry (39:53)
Hmm. ⁓
Carry (39:55)
I didn't come out the womb knowing this. It was new to me once and I was receptive to it. So there's also gonna be other people that are looking for it. again, just find your tribe and it's all right if people don't resonate with you. It's actually a good thing if people don't resonate with you because if everybody resonates with you, you're probably delving into people pleasing and not really being authentic to yourself. It's like...
Amie Fabry (40:01)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Carry (40:19)
I don't like every flavor of ice cream, but it doesn't mean that every flavor of ice cream is wrong just because I don't like it. I like what I like, so I'll get the flavor I like. And it's the same with this work. I think the people that listen to this and are intrigued, I hope that it plants a seed. And if anybody is listening to this and they don't know where to start, drop me a message and I'll send you the books that I've read, the podcasts. It doesn't have to cost you money, but it...
Amie Fabry (40:28)
Mm.
Mm.
Carry (40:46)
does
take taking that first step to be brave of just going, yeah, this feels like the pull of my heart. And we all have that, you know, to, to, I had a pull to be an educator. That was what felt right for me. And then I had a pull to do something else and it's okay to evolve and change and want different things in our life. It's actually a sign that we're growing and evolving like everything else on this planet. We don't just have a tree that stays the same.
Amie Fabry (40:54)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (41:15)
You know, we have seasons, things shed and grow. So I think it's being okay if there are challenges and expecting them as well. I think if we expect life to just be easy, then it's easy to feel like we're hard done to and be a victim. Like, why isn't it easy? Something that I teach to my clients from a business perspective, which can be applied to life is,
Amie Fabry (41:25)
Mmm. Mmm.
Carry (41:40)
expect to fail at least 25 times per quarter. Like factor that in that you're going to fail quite a few times and it doesn't need to mean anything. And knowing that that, you know, air quotes failure is just a stepping stone to figuring it out. I think we have to build that inner resilience and it's a, it's a dance, isn't it? As life is, it's a dance between how can we build inner resilience and how can we also hold
Amie Fabry (41:47)
you
Hmm.
Carry (42:06)
compassion and empathy without being too fluffy and you know being offended by everything but also not respecting other people's beliefs and needs. It's such a fine line and one of the best ways to navigate that is to have a high level of self-awareness, a level of self-intelligence and emotional intelligence which we can cultivate. Again it's a choice and all of these choices really do help.
Amie Fabry (42:07)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (42:32)
to make life easier and better in a world that is continually changing and evolving.
Amie Fabry (42:38)
Hmm. What a beautiful answer to talking about challenge. I love that. I love that you're talking about actually expecting challenge and expecting failure. Because again, I don't think we talk about that enough. And I think a lot of us still struggle when something's hard, that it's a sign that we're not cut out for this or we're not good enough or
you know, it's not working, maybe I shouldn't do it. so I love that you're actually talking about that this is a normal part of growth and for our own learning. I also love that you talk talking about, you know, everyone has different, I guess values, beliefs, perspectives. And so not everything you say is going to land with everybody. And that's a, that's actually a good thing. you talked about planting seeds and I,
I know you describe yourself as being an advocate for educator wellbeing. What does advocacy look like for you in this work and why is it really important?
Carry (43:32)
think it's important because leadership is necessary in education and wellbeing and the way that I advocate for that is to be powerful, heart-centred leaders and I believe that's important because it's the foundation of everything. If we can really be connected to who we are without all the stuff in the way that we've just kind of collected through our life and all the noise in the head.
That's where real change really has a fertile ground. So I feel very passionate about that, especially because, you know, being an educator is one of the most important roles on the planet. is preparing our future generations for everything. They're the ones that are going to be running our countries and, you know, the citizens and things like that. So it's so important that
Amie Fabry (44:14)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Carry (44:22)
we advocate for what is going to create the most powerful change here on a real basis, a real foundational level.
Amie Fabry (44:27)
Mm.
How do you advocate Carrie? Like, what do you do to kind of get your message out there and, you know, plant these seeds so that conversations might start and you know, to really help people think about wellbeing, you know, not just maybe at educator level, maybe for children as well. What do you actually do to advocate?
Carry (44:50)
I think that's twofold. I think there's professionally what I do and what I do just as a human in my everyday life. think often we think to advocate and to lead and to make a difference, we have to be like, know, Nelson Mandela with a speech and doing massive things. And I think that's where, you know, it holds a lot of us back to go, I can't make a difference. You can. And in my everyday life, I try my best.
Amie Fabry (45:06)
You
Hmm.
Carry (45:17)
to lead with kindness. Some days I wake up in a bad mood and I don't nail that and that's okay. It's going okay. How can I, as best as I can, try to be as good as I can and as kind as I can and whether that's just a smile at somebody in the supermarket or if somebody pulls out in traffic, not beeping my horn and not raging, know, how can I just be like, okay, don't add to that. It's hard.
Amie Fabry (45:24)
Hmm. ⁓
Hmm.
Carry (45:43)
but it's a practice like lifting weights in the gym, it's hard at first but the more you do it, the more it becomes easier. So I'd say that that is a way that I advocate and I also would love that reminder for anyone that needs it that you can advocate in any way that you want, you don't have to be in a position of perceived power and then professionally that takes a different shape because I take on the role of leader that
Amie Fabry (45:45)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Carry (46:09)
to be a leader and a light for other people of a path that I've walked and saying to people, know, if you need a guide and you need some support here, I can help you. Like, come on this path with me. And again, that's through conversations like this, saying yes to opportunities, getting out of the comfort zone and everybody's got magic and wisdom within them. And it's about being brave enough to put that forward to see who wants it.
Amie Fabry (46:25)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Carry (46:35)
without being attached to it. And one of the ways I am now advocating for this is through my work, through the Wellness for Educators program, through the free resources, through social media. But I would say first and foremost, it's just who we are every day and who we choose to be.
Amie Fabry (46:53)
That's such a beautiful reminder because I think, you know, I think it is easy to think that being an advocate means you've got to carry around a soapbox, which is really intimidating for a lot of people, right? Like they believe so passionately like about children or, you know, play or whatever it might be. But, you know, I love that you're talking about first and foremost, living and breathing it as best you can, being a role model and...
You know, not trying to be perfect because none of us are, but actually just living into your values and being a role model, but then having conversations and looking for opportunities to talk about what matters, right? So I think that's a really, really powerful reminder that we can all as leaders be advocates for whatever it is that we might really believe in, whether it's wellness.
and wellbeing, whether it is children, children's rights, inclusion, whatever it might be that we're thinking about, particularly through a lens of early childhood or education. Advocacy comes in all shapes and sizes and there are things that we can do as unique individuals without power or particular position or without a book or being one of the greatest thought leaders in the world.
We can actually all be advocates in that way. That's really beautiful. Carrie, I'm mindful of time. I have loved listening to you. And I think I could talk to you for hours about this because it is just so important. Particularly when I look at the sector, I look at what's happening for our educators, I look at what's happening for our families and children. I feel myself as a parent, someone who is working
it is hard to even when you start to go on a journey and unpack and be aware of, you know, wellbeing and what does that look like for me, it is an ongoing journey. So I'm really grateful to you for the work that you do and really grateful that we've met and you know, that we're able to have this conversation. Before we close off, I'm curious to know, do you have any advice for anyone working in the sector?
Carry (48:46)
Me too.
Amie Fabry (48:55)
You know, particularly for our educators or leaders, they might be in a variety of roles, whether it's a family member, someone who's a parent or a guardian of children. Do you have any advice that you would like to leave them with?
Carry (49:08)
Say don't underestimate your impact. The who you are and the natural skills that you've got are way more than enough than you think they are. Often we're looking outside of ourselves to be better and we need more where often it's just really claiming and owning that you are valuable and you have got what you need within. And that doesn't mean to say that
Amie Fabry (49:10)
Hmm.
Carry (49:33)
You can't evolve on that, but it's a beautiful starting point and it conserves a lot of energy as well. think when we're constantly looking outside of ourselves, what's missing, what needs to be done, what's wrong, we really miss what we can do and the impact that we do have. And everybody is a leader, whether you think you are or you're not, you are a leader because you are a human, you're existing, you're here. You're a leader of your life, first and foremost.
Amie Fabry (49:38)
Hmm.
Carry (49:58)
And then you can choose where you shine that leadership because you've got it. So you might as well use it in a way that not only serves you, but serves everybody around you.
Amie Fabry (50:07)
What a beautiful message to end on. I love that so much and I think it's very easy to overlook our own strengths and what makes us uniquely us because we are often unfortunately looking at everybody else who often look shiny and bright and amazing, ⁓ you know, and we only see the one side. So I think that's a really, a really beautiful message to end on. Carrie, thank you so much for being here. I have loved talking to you. It's been an absolute joy.
Carry (50:23)
Yeah.
Thank you, Amy. I've loved our time together, so thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
Amie Fabry (50:39)
My absolute pleasure. I look forward to following your work and talking again soon.
Carry (50:44)
Thank you.
