Nomad Learning to Nautical Teaching: Sal Gordon
How does one become the realisation that much of what might be learned over 15 years of schooling was mostly meaningless influence over a person's life trajectory? How might free and untethered gaps help one find personal growth, resilience, and navigation in their life?
Sal Gordon dives into the details of his Peaceful Pirate Principle.
After Sal's schooling, he quickly realised that most of what he had learned in over 15 years of formal education seemed meaningless. In a way, Sal felt that school had impeded his true education. What was meant to be a gap-year transformed into a gap decade, during which Sal travelled and worked around the world, picking up new languages, customs, and cultures. He took on an array of jobs and enhanced his life skills; from sales to office jobs, from authoring books to driving trucks, from tending bars and restaurants to managing warehouses, working in labs, and building houses. It seemed there was no job Sal hadn't tried – constantly adapting to new environments, building resilience, and nurturing his love for people, learning, and our beautiful planet. Amongst all his roles, Sal's favourite was sailing boats – an experience that profoundly changed his life. He discovered an undeniable, sacred bond between the water, the wind, and a boat. Sal soon recognised that the treasures he once sought weren't just material, like gold or gems. Instead, the real treasures were all around — the breathtaking natural environment, remarkable humans, innate creativity, life's challenges, and love. These became the most valuable to him. Sal believed his true vocation lay in teaching and learning. After all, that had been the essence of his life's journey. He was confident that, as a Peaceful Pirate Principal, he could guide others to discover their real treasures.
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This Season is done in partnership with Salzburg Global Seminar. https://www.salzburgglobal.org/
Please check out our partner’s publication advocating for education transformation: https://www.diplomaticourier.com/issue/transformed-the-case-for-education-transformation
[TRANSCRIPT AUTO-GENERATED]
00:00:06:02 - 00:00:23:16
Louka Parry
dear friends, and welcome back to the Learning Feature podcast. I am, of course, Louka Parry. Of course We're gonna have a great conversation today and it's with this wonderful educator: Sal Gordon. He's actually the principal, the head of teaching and learning at Green School Bali, where he's been since 2013.
00:00:23:18 - 00:00:25:05
Louka Parry
Uh, he's had such a
00:00:25:05 - 00:00:42:12
Louka Parry
fascinating career. Sal, I'm really excited to learn from you in this way, you know, Have you tried more, more roles than I ever could? The sailing boats, writing books, driving trucks, a whole range of different things. But he's also lived in India and worked for a health and environment NGO, so very much a global citizen.
00:00:42:14 - 00:01:01:09
Louka Parry
Um, it's fair to say that that Sal now is an education revolutionary, and the Green School is very much a new model of what a school of the future could be or even perhaps should be. And we're going to talk quite a lot about that and the regenerative peace to that. And for those that don't know, I was very lucky to visit Green school a couple of months ago.
00:01:01:09 - 00:01:15:08
Louka Parry
Now, Sal and, you know, school without walls and actually have a look at the education model. I mean, completely nested in the jungle of Bali, in Indonesia. Absolutely remarkable. And so for the jumping in, Sal, thank you so much for joining us.
00:01:15:10 - 00:01:24:00
Sal Gordon
Yeah, look, it's a pleasure. I loved hanging out with you on campus and its going to be cool having a chat with you today.
00:01:24:02 - 00:01:41:16
Louka Parry
Sal. It just feels like to me, you know, there's nothing quite there's no professional learning that's better than actually going and seeing learning happening and talking to young people. I remember going and seeing some of the young people take us to show their kind of sprout project and they were using different vegetables as sprouts and like taste this one it tastes like.
00:01:41:18 - 00:02:02:20
Louka Parry
And just the kind of enthusiasm, Oh, I just reminded me of why education is just it's just such a vehicle for transformation. Passion. And all of it now we asked this question whenever we begin a conversation, silence. It's what's something you're learning at the moment. You know.
00:02:02:22 - 00:02:25:11
Sal Gordon
You got this way. When you see. Luca gave me this question beforehand, so I should have actually got a really good answer. I suppose there's lots not going to saya lot. Long learning, but, you know, I'm learning a lot, almost everyone. But I'm definitely learning a lot about myself as a leader and it's an educator learning. I'm the parent. So I think that's something that I'm mindful and aware of learning.
00:02:25:13 - 00:02:48:23
Sal Gordon
I'm a bit of an artist too, and so that helps me, you know, been playing around with different forms of art right now. I want actually change all of that and say that I'm just learning really more so in the last couple of weeks how, how changes and how hard I mean, you've just got grade school got into a really nice way, but it's a tough ship to sail.
00:02:49:00 - 00:03:12:13
Sal Gordon
And even though we have created a new model educating for the future and a wall, a strong campus, it's it's really tough. It's hard. Yes. It's a good job to do to to maintain culture, to maintain a campus that has no walls in the jungle comes and makes it up alive. And I suppose that's probably very relevant to everyone else.
00:03:12:13 - 00:03:28:23
Sal Gordon
Like I'd be I'd want to say, you know, the change, it's tough, but we need to change it in. It's hard work, but we shouldn't be scared of that hard work and we would probably just I'm learning how hard that is to maintain it over a longer period of time. Yeah, In a job as the leader at the school.
00:03:29:00 - 00:03:58:04
Louka Parry
It's, you know, it's, it's funny. So and I think about I really do believe that when we think about transforming systems which is, you know, a lot of the work that we think about transforming schools as opposed to improving them or tweaking them, it's like, how do we really take the elements and reorganize them in a profound way so that we're more human centered in our approach, more ecological, more regenerative, and I wonder about this thing with change that I think Gandhi said, you know, we're all trying to transform, trying to change the world, but we must begin by changing ourselves.
00:03:58:06 - 00:04:14:10
Louka Parry
And it is such a beautiful truism of leadership rise like them. Who am I being in this where I am? I? Am I being kind of my most authentic self and acknowledging the vulnerability that comes with leading in a beautiful, complex organization like the one that you lead?
00:04:14:12 - 00:04:41:03
Sal Gordon
The nation was more than just a clock in clock of solving a job. You know, we're dealing with emotions and futures and feelings, not just knowledge. This is this isn't just college based thing. And so, you know, that sort of change and we're also talking about creating a culture and withstanding that education is the vehicle of the future cultures that we're living in, understanding that.
00:04:41:05 - 00:04:59:17
Sal Gordon
So that's that's a tough job. It's it's important. But we can't the status quo, the education has been gone. We've got to get out of it. And it's going to take hard work. And, you know, I'm here with my sleeves rolled up into a room, but still learning. Still learning every day how hard that is.
00:04:59:19 - 00:05:27:16
Louka Parry
Yeah, well, Sal, I think it's the wonderful thing in learning organizations for the people that we assign as leaders in this case, you, you know, the requirement actually is to be the best learner. Yeah, not the best, Noa. And I think your comment before about, you know, ladders of knowledge that we've built our education system around like, you know, linea not sure useful right?
00:05:27:16 - 00:05:48:07
Louka Parry
But to a point, particularly now with the air revolution well underway, that's augmenting cognition. And so yeah, I think this this model that you've kind of been drawn to and now lead, I think it's really interesting. Can you give for people that don't know I mean, clearly I know and I can see in the background of the video now for those watching the video, you know, there's like palm trees.
00:05:48:07 - 00:05:56:09
Louka Parry
It's all bamboo. They give us a sense of what the Green School Bali is.
00:05:56:11 - 00:06:20:06
Sal Gordon
Well, I mean, we're a private international school, so let's get that out of the way first. We're not an experiment. We're not a camp. As students go from 3 year olds to 18 year olds, grade 12 graduate, go to university. So that sort of helps contextualize the rest. Yeah, we're a 15 year old school, a learning community with a mission of being a community of learners, making our world sustainable.
00:06:20:08 - 00:06:34:06
Sal Gordon
If we're still a 15. Yes, I've got a 15 year old son. Wow. And we act very similar to a 15 year old person as well. It's interesting as a leader to see to see that.
00:06:34:08 - 00:06:35:12
Louka Parry
Wonderfully.
00:06:35:14 - 00:07:04:23
Sal Gordon
We develop their own learning program, which developed that around different frameworks in terms of not throwing away important academic learning but integrating a lot of somatic real world learning and also a lot of experiential learning, designed a lot of an explicit skill based learning in values based learning opportunities. We're educating for sustainability, and it's not just environmental sustainability, it's social and economical and personal sustainability that we talk about.
00:07:05:00 - 00:07:27:20
Sal Gordon
The campuses basically, like you said, nestled in the jungle beside a river in Bali, every building except for the yoga studio is bamboo. They're all WALLACE And that's an analogy for our model of education, too, in terms of breaking down the traditional walls of education. And we've got 500 students a year growing probably in the next couple of years to 600.
00:07:27:21 - 00:07:47:10
Sal Gordon
And we're a real school that's created something pretty magical here that allows our students to connect their learning with the real world, to do something with their learning rather than just land for exams. And it's a place where everyone here is a learner and is able to, you know, activate a sustainability mindset and to make the world better.
00:07:47:10 - 00:08:07:22
Sal Gordon
I think that schools should be places that make the world better, not just create memory machines for factory floors and office jobs. And we're doing it was created. And like I said, it's a different model. But as kids to go to uni, so it's quite an awesome thing to be a part of it. And I've been here for ten years.
00:08:07:22 - 00:08:31:19
Sal Gordon
I've been part of that email came in after a pilot phase sort of thing. And so being here as a teacher, as a leader in middle school and now this, my fifth year as a principal, he gets to play a part and to be a part of an amazing group of educators that that have created a working model of a new future looking school that's aimed at educating for sustainability.
00:08:31:21 - 00:09:03:10
Louka Parry
Beautiful Sal. Oh, man, it's so good. And I just feel very lucky. Thank you so much for the opportunity to come visit you. Stay with me. In the Learning future tables. We still talk about that and we're thinking about what we might do here in Australia. Of course, in that space. At one thing you said that I want to pick up because when we think about the future, you know, and obviously that's an orientation that I have and that you have, you know, I think the language you say the like is the school of what the future of what a school of the future needs to do.
00:09:03:10 - 00:09:37:07
Louka Parry
And be. now I'm curious because I think in futures there's all these different scenarios playing out and what's not happening. If I can be bold at Green School, Bali is this kind of dis embodiment where we're kind of completely addicted to some of the extractive technologies. And, you know, there seems to be something about the recognition of place and place based learning of kind of, as you said, you know, like ethical pieces like education for sustainability, but in many different dimensions of sustainability.
00:09:37:09 - 00:09:54:23
Louka Parry
So, you know, it seems to me that this is a it is a future oriented school, but there's a there's a future that you're fighting for, it seems as well in this school. It's not just we're going to, I don't know, adopt the latest X or Y seems to be really nasty. Tell us more bit about that, because it seems like, you know, this is in our work.
00:09:54:23 - 00:10:05:01
Louka Parry
There's all these different scenarios playing out about what the future could be and what should the preferred future be and how do we shift and shift the systems around this. You know, what would you state, you know.
00:10:05:03 - 00:10:08:11
Sal Gordon
Where wasn't didn't put this in the pre rate, did you? And of.
00:10:08:11 - 00:10:11:12
Louka Parry
Course not.
00:10:11:14 - 00:10:36:17
Sal Gordon
To start with you know we can yeah completely about what that future holds but I think there are certain things that we know that are across possibly you know human civilization the time that we've been you know humans that we know that we need. Um, and that education unfortunately probably hasn't been aligned with things like, you know, connection to nature.
00:10:36:19 - 00:11:00:22
Sal Gordon
Yes. You know, that's got to be a part it's got to be a key a key component of future generations, regardless of what the future is. Even if we solve the environment, we save the oceans, we save the whales, we plant forests. It's still that connection and it's got to be got to be there. And I think skills and values are something that more and more education organizations are looking at.
00:11:00:22 - 00:11:22:14
Sal Gordon
You know, those skills don't change and people call in 21st century skills, I don't know, like soft skills and things on this are skills that have been a part of how we've developed societies across the years, you know, creative thinking and critical thinking and communication and collaboration. And we know that the future, we will need those skills rather than knowledge.
00:11:22:14 - 00:11:43:03
Sal Gordon
But we also know that, you know, the smartest person in the room isn't the person that can remember the most information anymore. So we know that's not of the future. It's providing opportunities to activate and do something with those learning. So there's important things that we've developed you know? our model, which is skill based and value based and nature based.
00:11:43:05 - 00:12:07:21
Sal Gordon
Valuing diversity is probably another one. We know that which, regardless of what it is, is going to have to have a mindset of, you know, valuing diversity and all comes down to and you can just put your hand up when you want me to stop talking. But I say concept of culture building, you know, the cultures that we create, whether it's the relationship with other people, with the natural environment.
00:12:08:00 - 00:12:35:16
Sal Gordon
Yeah, allergies, food, languages, all of those things come from the education systems before them. So and so green school is not the perfect school, but it, it it's modeling a future that's changing really fast, but it's very well aware of the skills we need, but also where it's responsibility of the an awareness and understanding and awareness of education.
00:12:35:16 - 00:12:37:23
Sal Gordon
Being a culture driver of the future.
00:12:38:00 - 00:12:39:07
Louka Parry
Yeah, we see if.
00:12:39:09 - 00:12:59:05
Sal Gordon
You look around the environmental issues, the social issues, we such a highly developed species, we're planning on going to Mars, but there's still global hunger and stuff. We're in a lot of shit and we're pretty awesome, you know, and it's nice to be able to order a burger and get it delivered to my door in 20 minutes. But that something has to change.
00:12:59:05 - 00:13:02:18
Sal Gordon
And I think that change, I know that changes education.
00:13:02:20 - 00:13:24:20
Louka Parry
Oh, so this is why I like you so much. I just that is such a resonant philosophy with my own way that I see the world. It's why I chose to become an educator and to work in this field is because it is the underpinning base plate upon which we build our societies. You know.
00:13:24:22 - 00:13:47:21
Sal Gordon
The revolution just created in industrial mass, linear economies, linear production consumption cycles, this concept of us being better than nature. Going back further, the golden age go back further, the Indigenous Australian way of imparting knowledge and help. A group of people lived in Australia, of all places, for 60,000 years. They must have had an amazing education system.
00:13:47:23 - 00:13:49:24
Louka Parry
Just to do that.
00:13:50:01 - 00:13:55:16
Sal Gordon
Same thing with the current education system that helps us create a culture that we want in the future.
00:13:55:18 - 00:14:35:02
Louka Parry
Beautiful Sal. I feel like one distinction I often reflect on is the difference between schooling, education and learning. You know? And I so often think, Wait, I don't think you'll say I'm certainly when I saying that learning is the problem of education, it really is this the mental models implicit in the schooling approach. And that's as you said rightly, if you look at the history of education, really does come from like a complete real culture nation of many generations towards an employee mindset away from agrarian societies or community local into this global sound.
00:14:35:04 - 00:14:37:03
Sal Gordon
You've just said that, hey, it's better than me. I'm right.
00:14:37:05 - 00:14:55:19
Louka Parry
Now. So this is what I mean. This is just a great because I feel like like when we consider the future, it's like, what future do we believe in? And, you know, there's a lot going on out there. There's the transhumanism movement, there's the techno optimist movement. That's the thing. We just will merge or we'll put computer chips into our brains, you know?
00:14:55:19 - 00:15:19:17
Louka Parry
And without doubt, some of those technologies will make people's lives better. Undoubtedly, like they will, they will save lives, they will improve quality of life. But I often think maybe stoically. What's it all for then? You know. Do we actually want a removal struggle? My view is no, because as educators, like being in the learning pit is the point.
00:15:19:19 - 00:15:45:15
Louka Parry
It's the struggle or the grappling is, as Professor Stephanie Jones said, don't on our last podcasts, like how do we grapple and support young people? To grapple like that is such a great verb, as you've been saying. You know, rather than memorization, the lower order pieces of of Bloom's taxonomy, it's actually like we want to grapple. You want to be growing your capacity, your competency, your disposition wins.
00:15:45:17 - 00:16:13:03
Louka Parry
Otherwise, basically what I like, it's becoming less and less. This kind of ladder of knowledge is becoming less and less relevant. And I mean, it might still be one of the substructures in the character of a human being, but I think I think we're being challenged on you know, for really in a in a way that we haven't been in education systems by this new revolution that we're seeing around us, hype notwithstanding.
00:16:13:05 - 00:16:31:19
Louka Parry
What's your you know, because I think the Green School just sets forth this model of what we're actually going to be in nature, because we are nature. And yes, we are going to use technology, but that's going to be to augment the learning experiences we want. So it seems to be more of a learning agenda rather than a technology agenda.
00:16:31:21 - 00:16:43:13
Louka Parry
How would you how would you reflect on that, especially kind of a day in the life of a young person, which might be an interesting thing for you to describe and maybe a day in the life of a principal? That's always a really interesting day to explore.
00:16:43:15 - 00:17:18:08
Sal Gordon
Well, yeah, I don't think that's probably one answer to the day in the life, but people do ask me that. And you know, I can describe the daily life of many, but that's probably very different every day. But, you know, there's a concept, I think there's probably underlying concepts of that are important in in the day of the classes, everyone at Green School and the concept of the connection to nature, you know, you know, whole day is embedded in with nature and, and learning as with nature, as was our greatest teacher.
00:17:18:10 - 00:17:42:01
Sal Gordon
The concept of the community of learners is really big. I think for everyone. Like we're learning together with everyone and making a difference within our community. That's big and lots of experiential learning opportunities. So providing opportunities to do something real with your learning rather than just learning for a test and things like that. We value the arts, music.
00:17:42:04 - 00:17:47:22
Sal Gordon
It's funny, the nearly every time I'm having a meeting, there's some music in the background.
00:17:47:24 - 00:17:48:08
Louka Parry
Was.
00:17:48:08 - 00:18:14:18
Sal Gordon
It school hasn't started yet. School for us starts next week, but ways to celebrate learning, I suppose. Other than just have it happening in a classroom, but to share and celebrate it amongst our community, that's really big. We've got a lot of animals on campus. It's not a fun school, but you know, you can't go a day without having a real sort of moment with some of our animals as well.
00:18:14:20 - 00:18:50:21
Sal Gordon
Yeah, You know, we're in Indonesia, too. We value the Balinese and Indonesian people and culture, and that's a firm sort of thread that runs through all of our experiences. So my guys love my guys, my favorite moments are with Indonesian involved. And these people, well, I love them a lot and yeah, a lot systematic based learning. I'd say that's probably something that is in a lot of schools, interdisciplinary learning, but really looking at sustainability objectives and outcomes In terms of this somatic learning, yeah, it's important.
00:18:50:23 - 00:19:12:03
Sal Gordon
It's hard work, it's hot, We're in Bali, it's okay. So I don't know if you are in Australia, in the south now, it's probably really cold, but every day here is so much is, sometimes it rains. Yeah, it's so, it's, it's alive, it's fun, it's rugged, it's jungle real learning. There's laughter and music and sharing and celebrating. That's probably a description of my days know.
00:19:12:07 - 00:19:14:09
Louka Parry
But yeah, you know.
00:19:14:09 - 00:19:40:08
Sal Gordon
And technology is part of that. Yeah. Hopefully to summarize, it might just be part of the solutions we're looking for when we talk about activated learning and learning for sustainable future. You know, we're trying to use technology old and new in terms of how we solve problems. We've got 50 plus sustainable solutions on campus that have come from student learning projects.
00:19:40:08 - 00:20:09:08
Sal Gordon
So it's not a school where we've just planted a whole heap of solar panels. We've had students, you know, when, you know, 50,000 process and then build an energy hub that's got its own solar hydro system there, the composting and seeds to table food things and bio bus network, which is runs with seven busses, uses reuse, you know, almost carcinogenic cooking oil from the smaller restaurants in our area.
00:20:09:10 - 00:20:33:00
Sal Gordon
And we work with a partner and they turn that into biodiesel. You know, it's about solutions to make the world better. And that's the way that green School Bali models this concept of educating for sustainability. So the technology's good. We know it's going to be a part of the future. It's another one of those future skills. But we see technology is as a tool for sustainable is not something to get too distracted from.
00:20:33:02 - 00:20:35:12
Sal Gordon
And you know.
00:20:35:14 - 00:20:58:13
Louka Parry
I'm always so curious about this Sal, because this is this piece where, you know, it's easy to let the technology lead us. You know, I think this is what what we can now see from the evidence around the impact of social media, for example, and the social dilemma and the Center for Humane Technology that one of the big proponents of the impacts, the negative impact alongside some of the positive impacts, of course.
00:20:58:13 - 00:21:33:19
Louka Parry
But, you know, and then I think with the IPS, if we let the technology lead us, it's we don't there's no, you know, captain on the ship to use, you know, metaphor for that. You know, we're just kind of being blown by the winds of of whatever is happening as opposed to and that to me, seems like it's a good idea to do something with technology because, you know, we know it's important as opposed to saying what is the learning experience that we think is optimal for our community in our place, in our part of this world, and then from that, then find the tools and the solutions that align to that.
00:21:33:21 - 00:21:54:03
Louka Parry
I think there's a temptation for all of us, myself included, as a bit of a geek, you know, like, Oh wow, this is amazing. But actually what's this for? Is this in service of us and, you know, be at the fountain, You know, some of the founding members of the technologies be at Oppenheimer, which of course is a bestselling movie around, you know, the idea once you create these technologies, they are out of the box.
00:21:54:05 - 00:22:10:23
Louka Parry
So we either run them or they run us. And I think I think the way that you've integrated it as a solution is a is a really powerful and other thing. Sally's like modeling, modeling it. So we believe a world needs to be like this. And so our organization is also going to do this way. You know, it's just so real.
00:22:10:24 - 00:22:25:10
Louka Parry
You walk past as we did. You walk past the panel like, Oh, wow, okay, great. This is how things are. I start talking about the project, you know, as if it's external. It's being the project.
00:22:25:12 - 00:23:02:09
Sal Gordon
Commission of every school on the planet decided to solve a sustainability issue within its community, whether that's waste or energy or water, social things, social justice. It's just been automatic change moment in history saying if the government said, right, we're going to do this. Every public school in Australia is going to fund one sustainability project that means something to the community and that school won't get its funding the next year unless it helps at least start solving that problem.
00:23:02:11 - 00:23:22:13
Sal Gordon
It needs to be impacted, embedded into the learning experience. It could be an immediate impact moment of change for a country and and that's what we've been you know, creating a model for here. Yeah, schools to be the center of innovation center of change within a community.
00:23:22:15 - 00:23:42:07
Louka Parry
So good and that agency that I think is also threaded there you know seeing young people walking around, you know, chickens walking. I mean, it's just such a it's incredible environment. And I guess the point that I've realized so far so that like there's a difference between the methods and the principles, I think you know, this I think is a Ray Dalio line.
00:23:42:07 - 00:24:03:17
Louka Parry
The principles are few, but the methods of many, as I say, here are the principles that can be applied anywhere in the world. But those methods will be unique, be they, you know, in in Bali, Indonesia, or in New Zealand or South Africa or Tulum and the other grade school kind of networks. And then, you know, every school should be kind of co-owned and coauthored, driven by think.
00:24:03:20 - 00:24:26:13
Sal Gordon
It you can think of the visual theme to, you know, the principles and methods of learning for an individual student in the real world, different role, different types of people and learners. And we've got to value that diversity. And so the principles might be the same, but the methods of learning ethics apply. Now we activate our learning can be different.
00:24:26:15 - 00:25:01:03
Louka Parry
And that's without I. I was lucky again, listeners that I happened to be in Bali on and visited Green School on the Green Stone Day, which I wanted to reference because this is kind of a TED Talk style event for year 12, you know, like final year students where they really share a project they've been working on. They're really passionate about a really deep kind of character oriented learning and the diversity that we saw just in the few that we watched that was just so breathtaking.
00:25:01:03 - 00:25:20:14
Louka Parry
I mean, here's some young people that know how they want to contribute to the world or at least know the questions they want to follow. And that's I that really is, you know, exactly the kind of attributes that we might want from. Yeah. From young people is a sense of this is kind of what I think I'm uniquely placed to explore.
00:25:20:16 - 00:25:24:07
Louka Parry
And that, like, that is such a great question. It's like this.
00:25:24:09 - 00:25:25:23
Sal Gordon
The exams. Yeah.
00:25:26:00 - 00:25:26:21
Louka Parry
Oh.
00:25:26:23 - 00:25:32:05
Sal Gordon
You remember finishing your exams and grade 12 and the feeling you would have had would have been sort of like relief.
00:25:32:11 - 00:25:34:02
Louka Parry
It was really it's over.
00:25:34:06 - 00:25:45:09
Sal Gordon
It's over to over, you know, that's how I felt. And I think that's how everyone feels. But after students get off that stage and it it's almost there, I think it's just beginning.
00:25:45:09 - 00:25:46:16
Louka Parry
Yeah.
00:25:46:18 - 00:26:06:24
Sal Gordon
As a human being able to follow my passions, knowing that I can have impact, knowing that I have skills, knowing that I can contribute. That I'm an important part and I'm ready. And they don't feel like anything's other, but they actually feel like it's just beginning and it's it's pretty awesome.
00:26:07:01 - 00:26:13:17
Louka Parry
Oh, so then it's fine
00:26:13:19 - 00:26:45:20
Sal Gordon
Interesting. Just Greenstone the green school Bali YouTube loaded with awesome things and a greenstone ogo and then you will be blown away and you can see you will actually start thinking it would be like questioning whether these are 18 year old kids because the the different humans after that they come through and model for free is that active, highly communicative, passionate global citizens that see themselves as agents of change and and that can be in anything that can be in a social justice thing.
00:26:45:20 - 00:27:05:04
Sal Gordon
It can be environmental. It can yeah, it's quite empowering and a great way to do it, too. So we step through the whole of the school. You graduate through primary grade five with a footprint, need to approach you, present yourself in a request. I saw my own son change in front of my eyes.
00:27:05:06 - 00:27:06:22
Louka Parry
Wow.
00:27:06:24 - 00:27:07:15
Sal Gordon
Yeah.
00:27:07:17 - 00:27:32:24
Louka Parry
So these are these rites of passage. I think that we must ensure in our education systems, in our processes, like where people can transform themselves, like back to where we began this conversation. Yeah, it's all about that. It's like I'm going to leave behind innately leaving behind is that I'm going to move beyond my previous conception of who I was and what I could do and what I knew.
00:27:33:01 - 00:28:09:16
Louka Parry
And like that piece, I'm I love the identity, skill, knowledge, taxonomy. You know, I really the goal is like, who are you and what can you contribute? That's a good question. Yeah. Instead of what do you know. Like which is, which is also a useful question, but it's just so incomplete I feel and I think I actually think with, with I in particular that that will shift that a shift of the orientation, it will be the hand will be forced, I think of a lot of education systems because of the way that this is going to transform ways of working ways of learning, ways of knowing.
00:28:09:20 - 00:28:47:12
Louka Parry
And to be ahead of the curve means to be, I think, real gritty, authentic, experiential, not those kinds of expensive. And always, always, always. So that's what I'm kind of really reflecting with grappling and struggle at the center of a learning experience, not suffering, which I think is what sometimes we've created unnecessarily in education systems. But but this struggle, the struggle of what we call productive struggle sometimes in the research, you know, it's not just struggling for the sake of it, it's actually for the enables growth and resilience in the right kind of ways.
00:28:47:14 - 00:28:49:06
Louka Parry
Alexa, I can talk to you so much.
00:28:49:08 - 00:28:54:17
Sal Gordon
It allows failure, the concept of failure too. We talk about failure being a success criteria.
00:28:54:19 - 00:28:56:06
Louka Parry
No! Nice...
00:28:56:08 - 00:29:19:15
Sal Gordon
And concern to most people that skills that such a people have to really think twice about it. But if you're an educator and you allow failure to be a part of the learning journey, then it's automatically going to be much more tense moments. Yeah, real because we failed a lot too. You know, starting up a school like this in the jungle becomes a variety of things.
00:29:19:15 - 00:29:27:17
Sal Gordon
And and that's just been part of a 15 year old sort of mentality. And I suppose we're only going to we're still going to fail sometimes.
00:29:27:22 - 00:30:04:22
Louka Parry
Yeah. And that's such a great lesson on on leadership that's needed its leadership to say, yeah, we tried this, it didn't work because what's the alternative? Try nothing, tweak the you know it's a yeah, I'm really taken by that sell. Hey I've got one final question for you. Yeah. Amongst about 50 that I've relegated phonics chat which is, you know, if you had a singular message for the people listening here who are largely educators and parents, innovators, entrepreneurs, policymakers, those kinds of beautiful people, thank you for listening.
00:30:04:24 - 00:30:10:04
Louka Parry
What's the what would you leave them with to kind of mull over?
00:30:10:06 - 00:30:19:20
Sal Gordon
Yeah, um, it's probably the concept around service. Like I said, I see myself not as the the boss here.
00:30:19:20 - 00:30:42:16
Sal Gordon
I'm not the boss, I'm a servant to the community. I think that teachers are servants to the students. It's a concept that has been thrown away, put in the back corner, and honestly believes that the being of service to the people in the planet is something that educators have the opportunity to do.
00:30:42:16 - 00:31:08:01
Sal Gordon
And I implore educators and school leaders, teachers in every classroom to just to be aware, to understand how much of the service that they provide. Because, you know, that's why I'm in education, to be a servant to the people and to the planet. And I think that's why I was put on the planet to serve, serve this community and serve future.
00:31:08:01 - 00:31:24:05
Sal Gordon
And so the educators out there, you know, I'm just how are yourself up your superheroes, your service superheroes? Because what you do changes the world, changes the world not just now, but it changes the world, the future world to be of service.
00:31:24:07 - 00:31:44:01
Louka Parry
Oh, Sal it's beautiful and it's a real purpose. Spiritual kind of orientation of What's this all for? Mae! Thank you. Thanks for being of service in what you do there in Bali and for our community as well. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, your reflections, and very authentically too. It's it's great to have you here.
00:31:44:03 - 00:31:48:03
Sal Gordon
Yeah. Oh, it's my pleasure, Louka. Yeah. Take care.
00:31:48:05 - 00:31:49:05
Louka Parry
See you next time.