A-Lab Series: Lesson One - Learning on Purpose

How do we be more on purpose, and less on point and create learning with rigour but not rigidity? How do we elevate voice, choice and initiative knowing that as we do so we create more freedom and more responsibility?

In this first episode of our 10-part special series on Learner Agency we discuss Learning On Purpose. This is the first lesson for agency shared by global education expert Charlie LeadBeater in conversation with three educators from different schools across South Australia. In our conversation we blend the conceptual with the concrete, exploring philosophy, practice and product and hear how schools have journeyed towards activating agency in their community.

Three brilliant teachers join us for our conversation today: Rhiannon Giles from Wilderness School, Bec Ingham from Good Shepherd Lutheran Primary and Angela Phillips from Westminster. We discuss what purposeful learning looks like and how identity meets intent when who we are powerfully intersects with what we want to achieve. As our educator colleague share their learning journeys, both inner and outer, we discuss the connection between values and achievement, how they endure and evolve, and how if we connect purpose, commitment, and reflection we can create high agency learning experiences that lead to increased growth and mastery.

This series is a special collaboration between The Learning Future and AISSA: The Association of Independent Schools of South Australia. Each of these ten podcast episode correspond to one of 10 lessons on Learning Agency from the soon to be published Centre for Strategic Education Paper authored by Charlie LeadBeater. We hope you enjoy the first conversation, Learning On Purpose.

See more: https://www.ais.sa.edu.au/events/student-agency-lab-three-year-project/

Transcript [Auto Generated]:

00:00:00:15 - 00:00:32:20
Student
So the year Sixers have to do a project which was about an aspect of health that could have been mental health, slate, screen time, whatever. And in year five, we did something that wasn't the same, but we did a project and we presented to an audience which made us feel special because they valued our ideas. So me and my friend, I decided that we wanted to invite people for our Year six project, so we had a long process of inviting people to come and it was really fun.

00:00:33:21 - 00:00:54:10
Louka Parry
Welcome to this special series on Learner Agency Defining Feature and the emerging future of schools. I'm your host. Look up, Harry, and this collaboration between the Learning Future and the Association of Independent Schools of South Australia, the All but ten lessons shared by global education expert Charlie Leadbeater. This is episode one. Learning on purpose.

00:00:55:02 - 00:01:24:08
Charlie LeadBeater
Well, thank you, Luca, and good to be with you on this podcast and looking forward to that journey through all the ten lessons. Purpose, I think, is central to this whole concept of agency. It's about learning being shaped by purpose and learning enabling purpose. I suppose purpose is one of those words, a bit like dolphins, green space and honey that you couldn't possibly be.

00:01:24:09 - 00:01:50:12
Charlie LeadBeater
Okay, so we all know that a sense of purpose can bring to any kind. A sense of meaning. It can inject meaning into routines that might otherwise be busy, but dead, and it can link and connect experiences that otherwise might be shallow and rather fleeting. So purpose is really important how we make sense of ourselves in the world.

00:01:51:00 - 00:02:17:14
Charlie LeadBeater
And that is something that young people need to do to learn. And both to learn about the world, but also about themselves. So purpose is about who we are, what matters to us, what we care about. It answers questions of identity. And so forming a purpose is very linked to forming an identity. And purpose is also tells you something about your intent, doesn't it?

00:02:17:14 - 00:02:39:16
Charlie LeadBeater
It's about what you want to achieve in the world, what matters, what you want to bring about. So we see, I think in the schools that we've been working with in this collaboration, how much purpose matters to learn? Learning is so much more powerful when it engages a sense of purpose that it's something that matters to you as an individual.

00:02:40:02 - 00:03:10:04
Charlie LeadBeater
But it also matters because it makes a difference to the world. It's also clear that learning is animated by purpose, but also that purpose is something you arrive at and achieve through learning. So there are two accounts really, of how people get a sense of purpose. One is a sort of in a reflective account, you find your purpose by going inside yourself and trying to find your sort of true self and calling.

00:03:10:14 - 00:03:35:21
Charlie LeadBeater
And I do think that reflection, especially being able to reflect with other people, whether they're your peers or your teachers or other adults or collaborators, is really important. That sense of dialog, but really that reflection needs to be fed by experimentation and exploration. Is this me? Do I like this? Does this really matter to me? Am I good at this?

00:03:35:21 - 00:04:03:19
Charlie LeadBeater
So really, to develop purpose, you need to sort of explore and experiment with different senses of yourself. And then more than that, you need to be able to imagine yourself in futures. You need to be able to cast yourself forward, almost to sort of play with versions of yourself and then also excavate yourself in a way to excavate where I come from, what matters to me, where I where I've been brought up, so on and so forth.

00:04:03:19 - 00:04:32:07
Charlie LeadBeater
So purpose connects these different aspects of ourselves. And really an education that breeds purpose has got to breathe this process of exploration and experimentation, imagination and excavation all brought together around a kind of process, a continual process of reflection and deliberation, and a school that wants to encourage a real sense of purpose has to do all of those things through all of its activities.

00:04:32:16 - 00:04:37:21
Charlie LeadBeater
So you need purpose to drive learning, but you also need learning to enable purpose.

00:04:39:00 - 00:04:53:13
Louka Parry
I think it's a wonderful foundation. You've put that Charlie take us into. Oh, why are we not there already? What is it about the the kind of paradigm of the education system that means this work is really required?

00:04:53:24 - 00:05:28:02
Charlie LeadBeater
Well, I think education is too much a sort of long apprenticeship in diligently coming up with the right answer for people who already know what the answer is rather than exploring what the answer could be. And it's too disconnected from the world that young people inhabit so that they don't see often enough how what they're learning makes a real impact on the world that they live in and care about and and they want to be they want to be part of those values.

00:05:28:13 - 00:05:53:24
Charlie LeadBeater
And I think the other thing I would say is that too much of education these days has been become about sort of hitting the target, meeting the standard, getting to the level, rather than asking what's the point, what's the purpose, what's the intent here? The intent is usually to get to the next level or get to the next exam or get through the next kind of yardstick.

00:05:54:05 - 00:06:16:14
Charlie LeadBeater
So I think one of the things that has really struck me about the schools that are involved in the lab is that it's difficult for kids to develop a sense of purpose if they're not in an organization which wants a sense of purpose and that it's difficult for the young people to develop purpose if the adults around them don't also feel a sense of purpose.

00:06:16:23 - 00:06:47:22
Charlie LeadBeater
So this sense of purpose needs to feed through the whole school, not just through the young people, through the whole school. And the adults around around them need to exhibit their own sense of purpose. And I think that too often in these very often standardized, routinized education systems, that sense of purpose is being smothered. I suppose it hasn't been allowed to come out enough.

00:06:47:22 - 00:07:09:23
Louka Parry
And she says, Well, Charlie, relevance, this idea of running a lot of schools to work on student choice. However, then it's her and then some schools and out into this voice meets choice that you want and you seem to want to do. This is voice of choice and initiative, the sense of commitment that more freedom actually creates more responsibility.

00:07:10:15 - 00:07:12:03
Louka Parry
What is your take on that as well?

00:07:12:24 - 00:07:35:04
Charlie LeadBeater
Yeah, I don't think it's just about choice. It is clearly about choice and it is also about voice and it's about these two things being combined together. But I do want to stress that it's also really importantly about reflection. It's about reflecting on what you've done in the right kind of way to see did that work? Was that what I expected was a good at that?

00:07:35:04 - 00:07:56:07
Charlie LeadBeater
Did I feel comfortable? Do I feel challenged? All those sorts of questions. And then it's about, as you say, committing to something. I mean, purpose is something you're committed to. So this is about young people learning what they want to commit themselves to, what they want to invest themselves in. And that requires also them developing a sense of responsibility.

00:07:56:07 - 00:08:24:08
Charlie LeadBeater
If I'm going to commit to this, what responsibility to take would be outcomes. And so one of the things I think we found is that when you do that in the right way, the sense of responsibility that young people take for their own learning goes up and they really feel that they want to take responsibility for it and they want to look after it and they feel it's something that they're proud of and they want to really care about it.

00:08:24:16 - 00:08:58:07
Charlie LeadBeater
so that that's more than just choice and voice, if just more than just choosing from a set of options or a menu or having an opportunity to have your say. It's much more like the practice in a way. It's much more like a daily practice of how you go about these things and getting used to this sort of cycle of initiative, commitment, reflection and readjustment, so and so forth, which will be, you know, a pretty continual cycle in people's lives, I think, as they adjust to the changing opportunities, challenges of the world.

00:08:58:22 - 00:09:19:04
Louka Parry
Mm hmm. That's fantastic. Sally, I love also your articulation here. You know, the inner meeting, the outer identity meeting, intent, and that this must be true, not just for now. When we talk about student agency, you know, the agency of all the human beings that are operating, that are working, that are present within a in a particular environment.

00:09:19:18 - 00:09:42:10
Louka Parry
And we are lucky that we have three fantastic practitioners here with us today whose work has, over the last number of years has been taking these ideas and actually making them real in different learning environments. So we're going to hear from from these wonderful practitioners and then dove into some questions about how do these concepts actually become created, become real in different contexts.

00:09:43:02 - 00:09:45:03
Louka Parry
So Angela, please introduce yourself.

00:09:45:09 - 00:09:50:24
Angela
So I mentioned some of the curriculum legitimate questions.

00:09:51:00 - 00:09:52:22
Louka Parry
So glad to have you here.

00:09:53:13 - 00:10:12:15
Angela
I'm Rhiannon Giles. I teach the school mathematics and I'm also pastoral care immigrants and I'm getting them and I teach at good Czech immigrant school and I teach one to students in a multi statement meditation to fantastic.

00:10:12:15 - 00:10:32:12
Louka Parry
Well thank you for being here. And so Charlie, we really want to delve into now, you know, the journey that these schools have been on, you know, hearing insights from Angela, from Rhiannon and from Beck. So a first question I have for all of you is tell us about the journey. You know, where did you start? Where were you?

00:10:32:17 - 00:10:38:19
Louka Parry
You know, what was it that triggered kind of the change that disrupted kind of business as usual?

00:10:39:10 - 00:11:06:21
Angela
I think maybe the trigger was challenging enough. This workshop, he said that I can stick with you. That's a subject at six months. So I was a bit like challenged, sexy challenged. And I think after listening to Charlie's introduction and he talks about how we feel about ourselves, at the end of the day, this my students to leave school looking and feeling confident that they're actually good at it.

00:11:06:22 - 00:11:14:15
Angela
It's not actually about results. It's great to get good results and to have that actually. So I think that's what threw me.

00:11:15:15 - 00:11:17:03
Louka Parry
That's it. Rhiannon What did you start?

00:11:17:19 - 00:11:39:18
Angela
I started in a similar position. I find that the students in my class lack a lot of confidence in the mathematical ability and that they don't identify those periods of productive struggle is actually where they do some really wonderful learning. I would prefer to be comfortable knowing the answer that went towards that answer and do the same question over and over again.

00:11:40:05 - 00:11:52:12
Angela
So I started with some ideas around writing in mathematics, doing some reflective writing, but then come to understand that those tricky situations are actually where they learning and it's.

00:11:53:04 - 00:11:54:11
Louka Parry
Fantastic and.

00:11:54:24 - 00:12:31:24
Angela
Awesome. And we are involved in the Middle Praxis Project. And so our focus at our school has been really about capabilities and dispositions and how they transferred across learning areas and how we can make political transition at school. So when I drew this back down to math and I thought about, well, how can our youngest students or some of the students really have a sense of agency if they don't yet know themselves and contemplate on their own and they don't have the language to do that.

00:12:32:07 - 00:12:52:20
Angela
So like you said, we we were kind of looking for answers. We were telling them what to do to find the answer. And they were telling me already that advances they were telling me the answer. And that's a problem. And I know that keeps its founders. I teach on that agency as well.

00:12:53:09 - 00:13:11:20
Louka Parry
Well, take us some fantastic starting points, you know, and all of us, you know, when we think about the innovations around us, somebody at some point in time said, I'm going to do something about the confidence of students in mathematics or in a elevating agency like let's let's go to you take us a bit more on that journey.

00:13:11:20 - 00:13:23:08
Louka Parry
So the idea of saying, even though these are younger learners in year one to composite class, what have been some of the steps that you've taken? What have been some of the changes that you've tried to kind of initiate on this journey so far?

00:13:23:16 - 00:13:57:14
Angela
Yeah, sure. So we had initially our coaches be in school as well, which really helped frame this language, this step in so many ways. So I did a lot of modeling of what it's like to be a reflective thinker. I also focused a lot on mindset, including awareness. We are getting into the age you want into where we like to compare with other kids where we're at.

00:13:58:02 - 00:14:26:13
Angela
But just developing that mindset of, well, actual Wednesday, okay. We also looked at reflecting honestly and that looks like a whole range of things. But we had visual stoplight systems. I had learning progressions from the map of the world and they could go up and use their own names from, Oh, well, I'm going to get stuck to going okay too.

00:14:26:13 - 00:15:01:19
Angela
I'm doing amazingly and everyone just knows because it's visual that there's no judgment. We've got to keep standing up in the middle of a lesson and taking the name off or with asking and moving it on because oh, I've got that now. And that was a big Oh, that's agency. That was a big moment for me to go, oh, why you standing up without asking to like oh actually that's agency and a cute bit will say I'm just moving to the other group back because I think has got this I don't need your help any more and you know it's for a six year old to do that.

00:15:01:19 - 00:15:09:12
Angela
It's powerful. And you just you don't want that to get lost. Is that agency takes them all back.

00:15:09:12 - 00:15:32:19
Louka Parry
That's fantastic. Charlie, I want to flag something with you here that you may want to contribute to. Clearly, Becks just shared a shift in her own mindset about the role of an educator. You know, kind of. We've all have our own experiences of how teaching must be. And so it's also the kind of unlearning of that as students standing up by themselves to go and engage in a, you know, shifting themselves on a learning progression is a fantastic outcome.

00:15:33:01 - 00:15:46:10
Louka Parry
And yet our initial thought might be actually, have you asked for permission to this? So it's it's this kind of space around that, so you may want to comment on that in a moment. Rhiannon do you want to share a bit more about your journey as well with what you've done there.

00:15:47:15 - 00:16:15:14
Angela
With a colleague? I was talking about how we could bring students to a position where they understood the mistakes that they had made while trying to write solutions. But actually I would think that sometimes you need to knock out that type one. You get there and lead to out to. My colleague said to me, it's kind of like that Japanese concrete thing, you know, when they smash it and then they put it back together with precious metals.

00:16:15:14 - 00:16:42:13
Angela
And what they end up with is something that was broken. But it's been put together beautifully again and with something that's really precious, like natural as so then. And we were having a discussion about that and it was like, why wouldn't you get students to do corrections to a test or an assignment in beautiful pens? So gold and silver chains so that it was they would trade.

00:16:42:13 - 00:17:11:13
Angela
We got to use beautiful stationery and at the same time understand that just because you made a mistake that wasn't devastating and that it could be something that's beautiful and that you had some that you could build something that was wonderful. So that's really where my project started. And then from that, we're also cultures of thinking skills. So we looked at using thinking it routines to to encourage the students to reflect on how did you go with that test?

00:17:11:13 - 00:17:25:01
Angela
What did you find challenging? What would you do differently next time? So that they were really critically reflecting on the learning that had happened and to understand that it was beauty in that at first it was making them.

00:17:26:03 - 00:17:39:24
Louka Parry
I just love that. I love that example. It's so practical. I think it's called wabi sabi. The idea. Yeah. With you, you know, you reconstruct something, just before we move on. Rhiannon, take us into this idea of productive struggle because you've used this phrase.

00:17:40:06 - 00:18:05:04
Angela
Was something that came up in our professional development at school, and I think that we've identified that it's something that awareness at an all girls school really find difficult because they want to find the answers. I don't want necessarily to find things difficult or challenging. I would like to do things over and over again and not actually in outside that context.

00:18:05:12 - 00:18:29:13
Angela
So it's a term that really rang to ring true for me, and I carried that with me and I, I know that myself as a learner would prefer to stay where I'm comfortable, but I know as a educator that I'm constantly trying to push people out there to to go further. And I think that modeling that you just got back is really important.

00:18:29:13 - 00:18:53:07
Angela
And I think that I'm much more aware now that I need to show students when I'm struggling to answer questions and talk to them specifically about strategies that you can use when you get to a point where you don't know what to do. And that's really one of the beautiful things about mathematics, is that you've got to work out what to do when you don't know what to do.

00:18:53:07 - 00:19:21:01
Angela
What can you trial have things to fall back on different ideas of approaching problem solving because even if you don't go on to use a lot of messy mathematics in your future, you always can be solving problems. And so that's that's really why that idea is just sometimes it is hard work to learn and that is okay, you come out the other side and it is something that we've talked about at school.

00:19:21:04 - 00:19:25:23
Louka Parry
And other wonderful. Yeah I mean that shift from this is too hard for me.

00:19:26:19 - 00:19:27:19
Charlie LeadBeater
I self-reflection.

00:19:27:19 - 00:19:29:12
Louka Parry
Say I'm engaged.

00:19:29:12 - 00:19:29:16
Angela
In.

00:19:29:16 - 00:19:32:06
Louka Parry
Productive struggle. I mean that is a shift in.

00:19:32:06 - 00:19:40:07
Angela
Mindset and a wonderful idea to be. I can't do this yet. Yeah, the power of it. I'm going to give it.

00:19:40:11 - 00:19:46:14
Louka Parry
Yeah, that's wonderful. And some of that growth mindset work of yeah, that's to share a bit more of your story as well.

00:19:46:14 - 00:20:09:05
Angela
Angela from Westminster I think and similar to and we've got wonderful students, but it's quite a compliant I want to get through some stuff and especially math and I think it's actually the results have been quite good. So over the years we've got into nicer it's going to happen right in schools and it's been quite happy to come in.

00:20:09:12 - 00:20:29:18
Angela
It told me on the set, you know, go through the steps, make sure that you understand what's going on. So I really wanted to change things up. So in 2016 we started doing student votes. So asking the students what they thought about the next lessons, how they wanted us to change things, what works well, what could be even better?

00:20:29:23 - 00:20:47:22
Angela
And we asked them about how many times, what speech it's you chose and your learning started. There's been a lot of conversation about choice and it's actually quite small proportion and I think mainly because the students didn't know when they were given chance, it wasn't confidence to make those choices. They wanted us to tell them.

00:20:48:06 - 00:20:48:22
Louka Parry
Which choice to.

00:20:48:22 - 00:21:15:03
Angela
Which choice takes away the purpose of making that choice. So that's where we really started looking at those strategies very it morphed into something else. So it launched into teaching students how to learn. So where are you strengths? How can you present this work in a, in a decent manner? And India is for me a sentence that was actually quite straightforward.

00:21:15:03 - 00:21:38:24
Angela
And the students who came to take risks, they were keen to do different things. So we had students make rather than doing. It's not much, but we're all making videos. And how does this between all these assessments is building things and really going stand? Then when it came into the space years, students went back to Is it right?

00:21:38:24 - 00:22:13:07
Angela
I'm running out of that and talking about our students so that it would seem that space itself tomorrow. And we were having a conversation earlier about students getting called on $0.20 difference on a load of 25 years, is that correct? So the students went back into that mindset, even moved to try all these different amazing strategies. So we spent quite a lot of time thinking, how can we get the students to tell us how to present networks like show that learning in different ways?

00:22:13:16 - 00:22:44:00
Angela
And we saw it really accidentally because one of our teachers at insight and then a horrible situation but a being of school in the audience group spend with the year 12 class. So we had to think about different strategies to assess those students, the students to show the learning in a really different way. And when we did that, we actually found that they could show that living in a much stronger rather than an equivalent class could turn a traditional assessment.

00:22:44:00 - 00:22:44:14
Louka Parry
Interesting.

00:22:44:16 - 00:23:02:10
Angela
So that then gave people the confidence to have a go at things. And then after we spent working in moderation and the results stood in size, it felt a little bit safe of teachers to make that step. So it wasn't just the students in the learning itself, but the step mom.

00:23:03:01 - 00:23:10:20
Louka Parry
Sally, I want to throw to you here some wonderful reflections from these three brilliant educators. What do you want to pick up from what you've heard so far?

00:23:12:05 - 00:23:33:04
Charlie LeadBeater
Well, they are they are really rich and great stories and I did I did think at the end of this that I would I would love to have been taught math by any of these teachers, because actually, math is something that I could kind of do when I was about ten. And then by the age of 15, I was convinced I couldn't do.

00:23:34:05 - 00:24:00:03
Charlie LeadBeater
And I think it was because we didn't have these sorts of conversations to kind of work to out how you could do it and what was the struggle and so on and so forth. But I just want to highlight a couple of things. One is this sort of stepping through the portal moment that Bex talked about and actually that appendicitis that we created for you, Angela, was that there was a moment there where you kind of step through and and saw something completely different.

00:24:00:09 - 00:24:33:05
Charlie LeadBeater
And it was such a simple thing that where you put your name on the wall creates a different practice, creates a moment of self-reflection, creates a moment of agency, and in that moment, a child changes their sense of themselves and changes your sense of yourself as a teacher and probably model something for the the entire class. And so I do think there's something about this which is about moving from fixing problems or correcting things to get the right answer.

00:24:33:24 - 00:25:12:16
Charlie LeadBeater
Obviously getting the right answer in a test matters, but moving to not how. Let's fix the problem to let's open up the possibility there's almost a sense of teachers and students stepping through a portal and seeing a possibility and opening out in a kind of much more kind of generative, creative way. And then all of this stuff that links together about confidence being able to reflect honestly, just to sort of underline really how emotional practice and that sort of the emotions that math can induce in people of sort of fear, insecurity, so on and so forth.

00:25:12:24 - 00:25:38:12
Charlie LeadBeater
And a lot of what, what Angela Rhiannon back to be talking about is, is about managing these emotions, self-regulation, engagement kind of confidence, resilience, understanding yourself. And then the final thing is, is something that comes up again and again I think in these cases is just the importance of language, creating a language which students can really engage with.

00:25:38:13 - 00:26:00:05
Charlie LeadBeater
It doesn't feel like it's someone else's language that they can they can use just that simple thing that is your name. Where would you put it? You know, that just opening up the possibility that you can engage with this and you can describe it in terms which make sense to you, enables a sense of sort of agency and purpose and all of these examples.

00:26:00:05 - 00:26:23:17
Charlie LeadBeater
And there are different ways of feeding that cycle, you know, just in in little ways. So little cycles turn into bigger cycles. So yeah, really, I mean, it's so in inspiring when you get that sense of the philosophy rooted in the practice in a daily, daily practice.

00:26:25:08 - 00:26:51:03
Louka Parry
Thank you, Charlie. I love this concept of, you know, walking through the portal. That's such an interesting way to think about it. And you know what? I'd love you to share because I'm sure I mean, these are wonderful practices and they're not so easy. It's there's a there's so many challenges in there working in a school in kind of the busy dynamic, you know, vibrant environment that a school is share across this journey.

00:26:51:03 - 00:27:03:16
Louka Parry
So far. And of course, we never arrive, which is also an exciting proposition. What's been the biggest challenge that you've you've kind of faced and and overcome or potentially not yet?

00:27:03:22 - 00:27:23:06
Angela
I think for me, the biggest challenge is what we see at work in your classroom. It's amazing. And then you feel able to take risk and keep going. But explaining that to somebody else and getting all the people on board to take the risk, I think that's I think that's probably the biggest hurdle that I have to face.

00:27:23:21 - 00:27:46:22
Angela
And people think that I'm crazy to come in and have this great idea. I think that we should in second debate a math test. I think we should get the students to do big posters and then they can do in our presentation space and everybody's home safe. So getting over that little bit of a hurdle, I think is, you know, moving from that to people feel comfortable to take the risk.

00:27:46:22 - 00:28:01:00
Angela
I think that's been the biggest battle and it's taken quite a while. And even now I would say we've probably got about 90% of the table and there's still some people who are hanging on for dear life. Why not just do it?

00:28:01:00 - 00:28:04:04
Louka Parry
Yeah, but it's not a surprise.

00:28:04:04 - 00:28:28:22
Angela
And one of my biggest challenges to do what to do with this reflective writing. So certainly a lot of students will write about how anxious they are before a test or before an assessment is due. And they talk about all those kinds of feelings. And as one teacher in a classroom trying to manage all of that has been quite interesting.

00:28:28:22 - 00:28:51:06
Angela
But I do write that reflections and certainly one of the ways that we we dealt with that was to the students came to me before a test and said, we want to do this mindfulness practice before at test. We're all feeling be stressed and we think that this is a way that we could calm down and just type in the ineffable way.

00:28:51:15 - 00:28:59:20
Angela
We did that and so we've done that too. So sometimes that the solutions to my challenges actually come from the students.

00:28:59:20 - 00:29:02:22
Louka Parry
Take a great example. Fantastic.

00:29:02:24 - 00:29:25:23
Angela
Now that I think I really resonate with Angela in terms of it being a bit of a collaborative process in its teens and going across the school, because we see it in our overall level of 28 children that I've just had this amazing breakthrough. But you want to share that and other people haven't necessarily been on that journey this year.

00:29:26:06 - 00:29:57:23
Angela
I mean, we've been doing this for three years now and that's a long three years of learning. And to just all of a sudden share 5 minutes of this going through the school with your colleagues, and they're like, okay, sure. And I think the only way we can make a change in the mindsets and the capabilities of these kids to do it across the whole school, which we ask all of working really hard on, but also like staff change every year.

00:29:57:23 - 00:30:16:12
Angela
And that's been really harder in three years. You've had a huge turnover of staff. We've tried to just pull into this projects and teach quickly as we can and then obviously you get new students every year too. So that knowledge behind your cohort, I mean, I only get half of new students, my new ones to come later this year.

00:30:16:20 - 00:30:48:06
Angela
So that's beautiful that I can keep that culture, that class culture going with at least half. And they can help me to get in the house, but it takes you right back to right. Let's start here. We're developing all this knowledge that you take to build fast culture, build to this ability to be able to open, reflect ideas and to be brave enough to share that maybe you're not quite getting something or be brave enough to share that you are because your work is, you know, multi-age.

00:30:48:24 - 00:31:19:00
Angela
You know, we haven't been at school as long as you want, but in nature we have and we have different skills and, you know, just getting them to a point where we're all comfortable sharing where we're at, that's, you know, to do that in one year, it seems like such a long time, but also a little brain state where you give a little bit that different every year, the different, you know, one cohort went through and thinking how this might.

00:31:19:00 - 00:31:46:23
Angela
And then I guess the latest challenge is that our curriculum has been managed. We it's it's a fabulous curriculum, but it just will change little things. And the ceiling is higher now and the expectation of problem solving is higher and the expectation of receiving fire. And I, I feel in a good place because I know it comes across or use an agency reflection will help with that change.

00:31:47:15 - 00:31:54:11
Angela
So it really goes back to work on the staff and teachers and so that when it comes.

00:31:55:14 - 00:32:14:01
Louka Parry
At fantastic all three of you really I mean and this challenge around creating kind of a coherence across practice, you know, based in the same philosophy so that as your year one's become a year too. Well, they, they're lucky to have the same educator and then they go into the three classroom. And of course it's, you know, what's the transition for them?

00:32:14:01 - 00:32:30:06
Louka Parry
Are they embraced in the same way around their agency? I mean, that seems to be a collective challenge around how we do this work in schools. Charlie, any brief comment for you around? You know, I magically solve some of these all existing challenges about how. Yeah. As has been outlined here.

00:32:31:04 - 00:32:57:18
Charlie LeadBeater
No I mean that there isn't a magic way to do it and there isn't a perfect way to do it. And in a way, I think one of the one of the problems with this sort of, you know, kind of hitting the target, beating the standard, getting the answer right is a sense of perfectionism, whereas really what you want is continual progress and a continual sense of momentum and learning and development.

00:32:57:18 - 00:33:21:12
Charlie LeadBeater
And what's impressed me about working with these schools is just the sense of momentum of one thing leading to another thing. And and often when it seems productive, struggle is such a good word. Often when it seems most difficult and most daunting and there's a real dip, actually, that's where you are actually making the progress, because when you come through that, you realize you're getting to the other side.

00:33:21:20 - 00:34:07:00
Charlie LeadBeater
So, you know, the impressive thing is that these brilliant teachers and teams have been doing this whilst coping with everything that a normal school copes with staff turnover, kids changing, changing curriculum, you know, things going on around you, but nevertheless sort of continually pushing with this combination of creating products, you know, kind of tangible things that you could share like a poster or a kind of way of putting names on a board, practices which are difficult to share, but they're embedded in daily routines and relationships underpinned by a shared sense of philosophy that actually this is the way we approach these things.

00:34:07:07 - 00:34:27:17
Charlie LeadBeater
This is the kind of approach we're taking. And gradually, bit by bit, they build momentum and they get stronger and they grow. And they're held not just by the teachers or the leadership, but by the young people as well. So it's never finished. But you do want to I do think there is this sense of progress and it's really interesting.

00:34:27:17 - 00:35:03:05
Charlie LeadBeater
Their backs talks about that curriculum that that is also a little sorry that it's moving in that direction, that actually that's possibly going to make it a little bit easier to do this kind of thing because these kinds of approaches are now being recognized by other people. So so yeah, it is really legs I think enabled by creative, thoughtful practitioners who could understand how to design and create and respond to these learning moments.

00:35:03:05 - 00:35:14:01
Charlie LeadBeater
I suppose in a way there's this possibility of the agency. So yeah, that's I think the central ity of that I think is really important.

00:35:14:23 - 00:35:22:16
Louka Parry
That's wonderful. Charlie So lots of amazing progress to that point. Where to next?

00:35:22:16 - 00:35:53:05
Angela
I think to me it's making what we've been doing the new normal. So when we talk about stuff to notice, when people come in, we this is how it is. So people come in with the expectation that the engagement is why the students are also now accepting that this is how it's going to be done. And the students, because we do students every semester, the students tell us that they're not happy at that point, but quite straightforward now where the school that we go upstairs does a nice one or nice ladies.

00:35:53:10 - 00:36:14:01
Angela
Now this and I would actually really consider if we did X, Y and Z. So they are really passionate about their education and we know how they want to learn something that's naturally driving change. And I think people sense accessing the faculties. So for example, we had a business to this teacher who came and spoke to the students and obviously needs a win.

00:36:14:01 - 00:36:33:22
Angela
This spunky thing that you've got straight with me and then David now implements is not in the back answering. So I think we just naturally kind of start spreading across the school. So at the beginning of the project, Chana said, Is it going to be a project or is it a philosophy? And we said, it's going to be a project to start with.

00:36:34:06 - 00:36:36:15
Angela
I think now we're moving into osmosis there.

00:36:38:00 - 00:36:40:08
Louka Parry
Fantastic. We had a meeting next week.

00:36:40:17 - 00:37:17:01
Angela
I think it's taking the reflective writing of the students and making changes to the way that we're doing things, particularly around assessment. So Angela's saying, be brave enough to try some kind of multi-modal assessment as opposed to put old session text or folio task. So certainly I found during that period of online learning that students reported in their reflective writing that they were more confident Because I'm doing this in my bedroom, I'm not doing it in my classroom with other students around me.

00:37:17:09 - 00:37:33:24
Angela
And I get nervous when I've got other people who seem to be doing better than I am. So there's there's something really in that that you can take the feedback from reflective writing and not for my practice and moving forward. I think that's the challenge for us.

00:37:35:06 - 00:37:36:08
Louka Parry
That's great that.

00:37:36:18 - 00:38:09:03
Angela
I think similarly making sure this becomes a philosophy and a part of our staff culture and teaching practice, but also watching the skills and dispositions and capabilities across different disciplines. And how can we track that? Obviously been tracking it in mathematics and I'm comfortable in that subject area, but I also teach everything. Maybe I'm a school teacher and you know, I've dabbled in how to kind of get kids to look at progressions in literacy and things like that.

00:38:09:03 - 00:38:24:06
Angela
But how can I see the agency helping to voice about the subject of learning areas? Because really, that's what we've been. I need to ask, what is that? The capabilities, context and how we measure ignorance.

00:38:24:21 - 00:38:42:18
Louka Parry
Yeah, I love that. And I think that speaks Charlie, to you. This idea of the inner world, you know, who are we and then what do we want to do? You know, as you know, the combination of those two aspects and Angela speaks back to the beginning of our conversation today, the idea of can you even do agency in mathematics in the current system?

00:38:42:19 - 00:38:50:10
Louka Parry
Right. It's a great, provocative question. And I think what we've heard today is the answer is absolutely yes. And in fact, if you can do it in mathematics.

00:38:50:16 - 00:38:52:17
Angela
You can do it. Absolutely.

00:38:52:23 - 00:39:12:23
Louka Parry
Yeah. And so and that's I mean, as far as math in this, practitioners, you know, math teachers get such a bad rap, I would say not teacher so much as subjects. You know, Charlie, to your point, you know, the emotions that come up for grown adults when you put if you say, oh, he's a mathematics task officer. Yeah, it's actually quite terrifying, actually.

00:39:12:23 - 00:39:38:08
Louka Parry
So I really commend you on the work that you're doing across the three schools that you know you're working in right now. But to me as well as this network. And so my final question before we hear some remarks from from you, Charlie, is what piece of advice would you give to a school or to an educator, to a team, to a learning community that that really wants to take the journey that that you're still walking today?

00:39:38:21 - 00:39:59:01
Angela
I think to me, it's just giving. Sure you don't know something's going to work until you've tried it. And if doesn't work, it's about us as educators. Just like to know why it works and how come changes the next time. Just because it doesn't process time doesn't mean it's not going to work. It just means expect it. And you know, we haven't been talking about the learning as educators.

00:39:59:01 - 00:40:19:08
Angela
We get into the learning and we've got to model the behaviors that we expect. From my students. So just give it a try. I mean, I would back that up too. And I think too, when you can try something out in the classroom, the stakes are not very high. And particularly if you're talking to the student, I want to try this and you can let me know what you think.

00:40:20:23 - 00:40:32:16
Angela
I just think you have to give it a shot and and what's what you get some of that, too, about admitting that you're trying it and that you're letting it. Yeah.

00:40:33:01 - 00:40:47:19
Louka Parry
Yeah. Let's go. How do we embody that? And then rather than being, you know, testing in a classroom, not that the idea of being a guinea pig and pioneer pilot, because we know that there is a solution out back. What's your.

00:40:48:24 - 00:41:14:18
Angela
Take risks. So the same type race and build culture build a culture that we take risks build a culture that you've seen to go and build a culture that we have a growth mindset. And also among staff, it's sometimes and I'm not in this situation in my school, but sometimes on these journeys as an educator do you like standing over waving flags?

00:41:14:19 - 00:41:33:13
Angela
I still look at what I'm doing. I know what's kind of coming along for the ride with you, but keep waving your flag and once you know what you believe in and what's true for you, you can make it harder and build that culture. And that's going to bring people the me.

00:41:34:17 - 00:41:43:04
Louka Parry
Fantastic thank you to the three of you for the work you continue to do for joining us. Charlie, what what reflections would you add to that?

00:41:43:04 - 00:42:09:01
Charlie LeadBeater
Yeah, I mean, thank you, Luca, and thank you. And severe impact to that conversation, which is brilliant. I think stepping into it is the thing. I mean, all three of you talked about the importance of stepping into it, giving it to show up and being having the courage to step into it in your classroom. Because when Rihanna turns up and says, I'm going to try this, are you up for it?

00:42:09:01 - 00:42:38:08
Charlie LeadBeater
She's issuing an invitation, isn't she, to the students to step in with her. And it's a sort of growth mindset, but it's also a sort of growth relationship. But isn't it a sort of relationship that can grow? Because if that's actually pretty much whatever happens, it's going to grow because you've dare to admit that you're trying something, you're being honest, you're inviting them to take part in it, you're inviting them to commit to it and take responsibility, reflect with you.

00:42:39:05 - 00:43:11:16
Charlie LeadBeater
It's much more of an invitation than an instruction, and it's learning as invitation rather than instruction. And then I think, you know, for for the teachers, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because, you know, for the teachers, it's a question of confidence and safety and risk. And for the students, it is as well. It's it's this sort of relationship of fear, insecurity, which then locks in them actually in suboptimal ways of behaving because we then retreat back to authority, don't we?

00:43:11:16 - 00:43:29:13
Charlie LeadBeater
I'm the teacher. This is the question. This is the answer, kind of that routine, because we feel safer and we think the students will feel safe because they may know the answer. But actually the safety and the confidence comes from a different kind of relationship, the kind of relationship that all these three teachers in different ways of modeled.

00:43:30:16 - 00:43:56:01
Charlie LeadBeater
And I suppose, you know, in a way, Angela, I always feel like whenever I hear you talk, I not only do I feel like I should have been taught math by you, but I feel like apologizing for saying, oh, can you do agency in math? But actually, that was a question. That was a ridiculous question, wasn't it? But sort of if you don't ask the question, if you don't, you don't get interesting answers.

00:43:56:13 - 00:44:22:12
Charlie LeadBeater
And I'm just keeping on asking that question. Could we do it a different way? Is there a you know, is there a different way to get this to open it up? So it's it's about being open the whole time, which I think in that way is these all of these schools model in their practice so powerfully being open, not not being satisfied, not being complacent.

00:44:22:23 - 00:44:25:08
Charlie LeadBeater
And. Yeah. Thank you so much.

00:44:26:07 - 00:44:45:03
Louka Parry
Sally. Thank you very much for giving those concluding remarks an enormous thank you to you, Angela Rhiannon to you and to Ubec as well. And congrats on the work and the journey so far. You've been listening to Lesson one across this ten lesson series. Thank you for joining us on Learning with Purpose.

00:44:46:13 - 00:44:51:21
Angela
Kate. Kate, could you explain what our class did in term three this year? So the year six is.

00:44:52:02 - 00:45:08:01
Student
To do a project which was about an aspect of health that could have been mental health, slate, screen time, whatever. And in year five, we did something that wasn't the same, but we did a project and we presented to an audience which made us feel special.

00:45:08:01 - 00:45:12:22
Student
Because they valued our ideas. So me and my friend Ira decided.

00:45:12:22 - 00:45:22:20
Student
That we wanted to invite people for our Year six project, so we had a long process of inviting people to come and it was really fun.

00:45:23:10 - 00:45:28:01
Angela
Okay. And how did you feel? What did you learn from the experience?

00:45:28:10 - 00:45:52:05
Student
I learned that you don't get it right on the first try and like there was heaps of planning and we didn't realize how much planning it would be just to organize a small event of like like 20 people coming. And yeah, it was a lot of work, but the freedom to organize and just felt really nice having that responsibility of the people and had the feeling of like.

00:45:52:05 - 00:45:53:04
Charlie LeadBeater
Six, eight months.

00:45:54:24 - 00:45:57:01
Student
And like it was not a day value to.

00:45:57:01 - 00:46:00:18
Angela
Our ideas. Yeah.